Dave McElderry

04/26/96

I believe that although your advice is good advice, your last statement is probably true. Few people in that situation even have time to think about what they ought to do, let alone take any definitive action. I do believe that we can train ourselves to react instinctively to certain situations by way of MSF courses, however. When those situations occur, we may do the right thing even though we don't really have time to make a conscious decision. Unfortunately, there is no way to train ourselves about how to react to a fall-down scenerio (at speed). We can practice accident avoidance techniques, but if we have the accident we're not going to be falling in the right way instinctively.

Tom Guy

04/26/96

This (advising people how to fall) is typical of army or government training. There are so many variables occurring 'when you are falling' that only the govt would attempt to tackle this question. And only the Govt would think up a question like this. When in a 'fall' things happen extremely fast, probably too fast for us (well at least me) to think of what we 'should' do by the time we realize the fall is inevitable. By that time all you can probably think of is how much this is going to hurt. In retrospect of a fall, the circumstances surrounding the fall seem to be (replayed) in slow motion. One can remember the minutest detail, like the number of whiskers on the deers lower lip (16) and how large the eye seems to get the nearer to your head it gets. Very likely this phenomenum is because of the accute speed your mind is racing at, (in my case at about 100,000,000 times faster than the 'normal' speed of about 3 1/4 miles per year) Now you must think quickly and ask yourself did the bike highside or slide side? When you hit the ground, you at first realize you are travelling too fast for the co-efficient of the clothes your wearing acting upon the surface your travelling over is sufficient to slow you down very much regardless of the position of your body to the surface. (ie balled up or flat on your back) Hmmmm, you find yourself saying to yourself "I'm glad I have all this extra clothing on and I wonder if my Kevlar is as efficient as my cow hide?". Eventually the laws of friction take over and you now find you have slowed down enough for the co-efficient of the apparrel one has on at that particular time and event to re-act upon the surface being 'experienced'. In other words you start to tumble violently about. 'Clunk' goes your head against the pavement and you think to yourself "Boy I'm glad I was wearing my helmet", 'thump' (and an ouch) goes a elbow or knee and you think "Gee I wish I had brakes on this thing to slow me down". A lot more 'clunking' and 'thumpings' and you then begin to realize the tumbling about is also beginning to slow down and now you have time to think about how much the deer steak is going to cost you. Hmmm, lets see, new plastic fairing and bags, muffler, engine guard (with or without "crash" guards), front wheel, windshield, mirrors (they must cost about $150. Cdn$$ each) all flash through your head. There goes my spotless shiny bike and I wished I had purchased collision insurance too, may or may not flash by a few hundred times. By this time which must be at least .0000000001 of a second and 3,689,451, 278 heart beats after point zero later you realize your not dead and may even survive if only that 18 wheeler bearing down on you can get out of the way. Sky, pavement, sky, pavement and a few pavement-skys combined and eventually the world starts spinning at it's normal rate. There is a pain in your ribs (where you so thoughtfully cushioned the fall of your co-rider), (this is a phenomen of gravity, facts, friction and good manners. You went first because you were in front of her, fact. You hit the ground first and so friction on you, the little there was, made you slow down while she was still in the air travelling at 60 mph, and as she at this time was above you, gravity took hold and placed her squarely on your rib cage.) a red hot throbbing in both your hips where the pavement burned and scratched away your clothes, your elbows and knees hurt like hell and you find you can not move one arm. Like a cat being thrown up in the air (no, Ive never done that) you jump to your feet and look around for your co-rider who is sitting on the yellow line asking "What happened?" (she is not too bright at this or any other time, blonde, how did you know?) You find she has only torn a hole in the leather glove and scrapped a knuckle which is not even bleeding. Amazing, she must have taken one of those government courses on falling off motorcycles. You quickly drag her out of the way of the 18 wheeler that has its brakes locked on, and deposit her on the shoulder of the road while you walk back to the really important concern. There it lies in the ditch, the life gone from it, broken stuff all over the place (no not the F------ deer, your bike). Now you think to yourself it is a good thing I read the article in Wing World on how to one handedly lift a bike up off it's side because the other arm is still useless. And you sweetly think to yourself "Thank goodness for the training Woodruff and the government army showed me how to get yourself into a ball or whether to lay flat out on your back with your hands under your head when you fall off your bike" I hope I have answered your question??? and maybe even given you some insight to falling off your bike. --- So if I had only known this before hand it may have been some assistance.

 

Gary M

04/27/96

Unfortunately, there is no way to train ourselves about how to react to a fall-down scenerio (at speed). We can practice accident avoidance techniques, but if we have the accident we're not going to be falling in the right way instinctively. Gentlemen, please allow me to add my $.02. I very strongly disagree with this assumption. In most accidents, the majority of damage comes from a secondary problem. One of the most important things any of us should remember, is to continue to do everything possible until we're certain the incident is over. As an incident begins to unfold, you begin making decisions. Should I swerve, brake, accelerate, any combination?? The decisions we make early will have a major impact on the outcome. As the situation develops, we may have to alter/change the first decision, or more correctly, make the second decision. This mental process *must* continue all the way through, regardless of how serious it's getting. In other words, even if there's an impact, the bike goes down, or whatever - you keep fighting it. The longer you fight it, the less you'll be injured. Professional racers must learn this early in their careers. While they have the advantage(?) of practicing this, all of us should give it our best shot. At a minimum, this mental process will help avoid panic. At best, you'll have either avoided the wreck, or minimized it to no serious injuries.

 

Gregory Flessas

04/27/96

My only experience with an accident has been that instinctively I didn't want to let go of the brake lever to let the bike go ahead of me and it was the friction of the road that finally pulled me off by the head and shoulder. Not wearing a helmet made that "clunk" the last bit of consciousness I had for about 6 hours, not something I ever want to repeat. My passenger also just held on and because she never contacted the road suffered no injuries except a lost shoe as the bike finally fell after spinning. I guess this agrees with a lot of people who say to use tires and brakes to stop instead of metal and plastic, but I can't remember thinking anything at the time except that staying on the brakes and seat was important. Incidentally, I didn't replace my airwings even though I loved them and insurance covered them because my "high-side" leg was scarred by them as it ripped through and broke them on its' way off the bike. So although I don't plan on doing this again I think the airwings actually held me onto the bike when I would have done better on the road towards the end of the spin/fall.

 

Sam Worley

04/29/96

When I first learned to ride from someone with experience, we spent time in the desert and I learned how to fall off an old dirtbike. The things you say are correct. I did have a bad experience about 8 months later and the training paid off in spades. In Spring Valley Ca. A '74 Ford maxivan came through a stop sign. I was in the right lane with a pickup passing me on the left. I was doing 50-55 MPH. There was time to look at options, I looked at going left if he stopped, right if he did not. The final option was-> he closed both lanes then stopped- worst case, no options remaining, could not stop in time so, I put bike on ground, then kicked off to get away from bike and truck. POINT- YOU HAVE TIME, IT WAS LIKE SLOW MOTION for me and the training paid off! Maybe I was just lucky- I had lights on, a flamming red helmet, flouresent vest, gloves, heavy jacket, boots and I rolled 65' with just bruises. bike went under the truck just behind the rear wheel. The driver left me laying in the middle of the highway, said he was sorry he did not see me and left! the guy in the pickup helped me get together. Lucky!!?? of course, Training??!!!! definitely! it gave me the time to REACT in a somewhat controlled fashion.

 

Elaine Anthony

04/29/96

James Davis wrote: >some people DO have the presence of mind to determine how to END a fall, despite how fast things are happening to them. Indeed, I did see the person in question manage twice to come off her Wing (on the same trip) and escape serious injury both times -- but Jim, you left out something that I think is very important. We were told after the first somersault that the reason this rider did what she did and saved herself from that 70-foot drop, was PRACTICE. Not practice from falling from a motorcycle that was going down -- she was a new rider -- but from being thrown off a horse MANY times, she said. The saddle on a horse probably sits twice as high as the one on a motorcycle, even a Gold Wing, is my guess, but it didn't keep her from getting back on (those who know her would understand. <grin> Another redhead, too!). I've come off a horse too at a full gallop, and it's scary as h*ll to wonder if those hooves are going to come down on some part of you that's still alive <g> while the horse is still running over you. It was a one-time experience for me, though, and I wouldn't give you any odds that in a motorcycle come-off it would make any difference now because I didn't do it enough. The parachute training parallel makes a lot of sense, too, and I might add, those who do martial arts may have better reflexes in how to fall, at least the 'tuck and roll' part, since that is one of the first things they teach (or did, when I studied Aikido). I'm sure she kept hoping never to be thrown from a horse again, but the fact is, she got back on many times after many falls because riding and handling horses was part of her life, and she knew what it felt like and what to do. Since she was unconscious by the time we got to her in the higher-speed come-off that totaled her Wing, I don't know what she had or didn't have presence of mind to do, and neither does she. But she was able to tell us about the first one when the wind off the mountain caught the bike just as she was parking. One of our LSL members asked me a long time ago to try to get the group together to come out to their place in the country and ride their motocross bikes. I was strongly in favor of this, because she told me in some detail the techniques you learn from off-rode riding that CAN translate into useful knowledge in some on-road situations -- such as roads that go to gravel suddenly. I tried and tried to get the other lady riders to plan an afternoon ride out to see these folks so we could try out their XLs, but none of them wanted to do it. I guess the 'falling down' part of off-road riding seemed intimidating. But some practice on soft ground would seem to be better than learning how to do it -- or NOT to do it -- on concrete. ;)

 

Bill Day

04/29/96

I think that James' reasoning is pretty good re the theory of what to do, and I'm sure that stuntpersons in circuses and movies use this approach. However, I agree with Tom Guy and others that when it actually happens, few of us are in a position to do much more than hope that the laws of physics are on our side. I have been in a couple of mild, low speed lowsides on gravel roads (lots of them in backwoods B.C.), and one dandy 60mph low side into a ditch in Montana (aquaplane). In each case, it happened with suddenness, and I really can't figure out how, without stunt training, I could have done more than initially cling (instinctive response), and then fly off and tumble (breaking my thumb) as I was flung off in the Montana incident. On the slow low sides, my instinctive reflex to cling worked well, as I rode with the machine, and in effect, was able to do what James refers to - step off. On the high speed one, I bounced along just as Tom described - fortunately, wearing first class leathers, gloves, and helmet, which were ruined, but left me able to walk - actually bike away, as the Wing 1200 was actually sort of functional after bending the handlebars back and applying 1/4 mile of duct tape. I even danced around like Tom descibed afterwards - adrenaline is amazing stuff. The Montana incident changed my view of the world (and maybe my genetic structure!!!) significantly, and I now spend a considerable amount of thought ensuring that it won't happen again. Still love the biking, but I think a lot more. Incidentally, and with due respect, I must say that I wonder about folks who refer to "laying 'er down" (low siding) when approaching a mess. If you think about it, just how _does_ one lay 'er down, when there are so many gyroscopic forces keeping you up, unless in fact you have lost control because of loss of friction, or have learned how to dump in a performance / stunt school? All this, plus the fact that your tires bring one hell of a lot more friction / stopping force to bear than metal, leather or skin will. In any case, thanks once again to James for bringing up a really relevant topic, and to Tom for his (to me) hysterically funny, and dead on description of life on the far edge of motorcycledom!! I've been there too, Tom, and thank you.

 

Chris Burian

11/12/96

Regarding "How to Handle a Fall--Assuming it's inevitable," I'd like to say that Step One is: Never assume that it is inevitable. Gary M. was right on the mark with his advice to *keep fighting it*. Unlike the original author, I do have experience in crashing (lots), and looking back it's painfully obvious that some of them were entirely avoidable, if only had I maintained control of my cycle. I think the idea of bailing off of a bike is absurd. That's part of the panic instinct that a rider needs to surpress at all costs. You must be *determined* not to fall. Teach yourself that "crashing is not an option." It's possible to recover from a lowside--a bike skidding along on a peg, muffler, and front tire can be brought back upright with weight shifting, handlebar twisting and throttle application. So do it. Never resign yourself to a fall or collision. Demand more performance from your cycle than you think it's capable of. Assumptions about traction and the laws of physics are dangerous when your mission is to *will* your bike to perform beyond its physical limits. Be absolutely confident that you're going to make it through the incident up on two wheels and you're a long way towards actually doing it. There are such things as inevitable falls, but they're rare in comparison to avoidable falls that somebody wrongly assumed were inevitable and stupidly allowed to happen. How have I handled my inevitable falls? With hands and feet on the controls, trying to wrestle the uncooperative SOB out of danger. I've totalled two bikes and busted up two others, yet my worst injury ever was a bruise on my butt that kept me in bed for half a week. Might be luck, or might be due to sticking with my bike until forcibly ejected.

 

R. Bain

10/05/97

My racing background has given me some insight into getting off a motorcycle. These are recommendations based on the experience of roadracers over the decades. 1. Relax. If you tense up you will be injured to a larger degree. I offer the drunk who walks away from a crash uninjured. 2. Do not attempt to change you position during the slide. By doing you may start a tumble which will very probably result in broken bones. 3. Never try to stand until you are certain you are at rest. This may seem silly but I have witnessed riders still skidding along a 30 mph try and stand up. It was not pretty. 4. Once you have come to a stop sit there. Wiggle your toes, fingers, arms, legs. SLOWLY try and sit up. CAREFULLY try to stand. The body tends to go into shock after blunt trauma. You may not feel that broken arm.