| Safety Articles/Videos / Tips 261 - 280 |
| 270: Crossing Railroad Tracks
|
James R. Davis
02/03/2012 6:11 PM |
Crossing Railroad Tracks
Attack Angle?
By: James R. Davis
Sooner or later you are going to find yourself having to cross over railroad tracks in the road. Virtually all of you know that you should attempt to attain the greatest 'attack angle' possible in order to minimize the odds of catastrophe, but I wonder how many of you know what that really means.
I have read state produced motorcycle rider handbooks and they invariably provide that advice - 'greatest attack angle possible', and usually they even specify that to mean 'greater than 45 degrees' or 'as close to 90 degrees as possible'. But while brevity may be the soul of humor, it is quite inappropriate when it comes to life-saving advice.
What does 'attack angle' mean? Does it mean the angle at which the front tire strikes the rail, or does it mean the angle the motorcycle is moving relative to the rail?
I maintain that the advice given is about BOTH being as great as possible. And that can only happen if the front wheel is pointing in the direction the bike is moving. And that means that you should establish your 'attack angle' long before you attempt to cross over the rail. I will explain why shortly.
There are three potential hazards you are confronted with when crossing rials: 1) Low traction (particularly if the rail is wet or oily or if there is ice on it), 2) A wide flange gap between the roadbed and the rail that can trap your tire, and 3) differences in elevation between the road bed and the rail.
Traction - obviously you want your motorcycle path of travel (not just the front tire) to have the greatest attack angle possible when you encounter low traction. You want the momentum of the motorcycle to carry you across the low traction area in as short a period of time as possible. A low attack angle increases the time you are exposed to that low traction.
Gap - A flange gap always exists between the roadbed and the rail itself to provide room for the train or trolley wheels to seat on the rial itself. These are usually no wider than about two inches. That is sufficient to capture your tire and rob you of steering (directional) control if you attempt to ease (low attack angle of your tire) across the track. It means only a trivial to modest bump with a large attack angle.
Height disparity - Just the fact that there is a flange gap next to the rail (actually, there is a gap on both sides of each rail because even though they are made of steel, rails actually move relative to stationary roadbeds when tons of weight are being carried by them) will cause the front tire to encounter a height difference between the roadbed and the rail, and it will be greater the wider the flange gap is as your tire will begin to roll off the leading edge of the roadbed before it encounters the rail itself.
But not all roadbeds are well maintained. Instead of looking like this (profile):
a worn and badly maintained roadbed could look more like this:
Note that there could easily be two height differences in that profile where the tire hits the rail as the first difference and then after rolling up onto that rail, the tire will hit the roadbed at yet another height difference.
With a large attack angle (both tire and path of travel), those differences will merely be felt as a trivial or modest bump. With a smaller attack angle, crossing that rail on a well maintained roadbed is not a big deal unless the rail is wet or oily or icy.
But consider what happens if the front tire is not pointing in the same direction as the motorcycle's path of travel and that roadbed is not well maintained. In other words, if the bike is in a turn at the time.
When the front tire hits the rail, it will be with the leading left or right side of the tire. That is absolutely a counter-steering input! If you are making a left turn across the tracks, the front tire will be 'kicked' slightly to the right and the result will be a lean to the left and your handlebar along with the front tire will veer slightly to the left. Then the tire hits the raised edge of the next roadbed as it crosses over the rail. Another counter-steer kick to the right and a very good possibility of the motorcycle capsizing immediately.
But this will surprise you, when turning to the left you know that the motorcycle leans to the left, but would you expect the capsizing motorcycle to therefor end up on its left side? Could be, but there is a good chance that it will actually end up on its right side instead.
Remember that there is a force generated by trail called the 'restoring moment'? That is a torque that tries to rotate the front tire in the direction the motorcycle is traveling. (To keep it running in a straight line and vertical.) But do you remember what 'NEGATIVE TRAIL' is and does?
When your tire rides up onto a bump, like a train track, as soon as the contact patch lifts off the ground level it had been traveling and into the air, trail has become substantially smaller and often becomes negative.
Negative trail (actually the restoring moment) now pushes the front tire AWAY from pointing in the same direction as the motorcycle is traveling!! You will feel an AGGRESSIVE twist of your handlebar in the direction of the turn. The front wheel will turn so dramatically in the direction of the turn that the motorcycle's CG cannot keep up with it and the result is that the bike will very quickly fall in the opposite direction. A left turning bike, for example, can easily end up on its right side as a result of negative trail.
So you now know that you should not be IN a turn when you cross railroad tracks. But sometimes you cannot avoid it. Sometimes there is insufficient space for you to complete a turn before your front tire attempts to surmount a track. Consider, for example, that you are riding on the roadbed BETWEEN the tracks of a trolley system that is running parallel to the roadway. The tracks have been embedded into a lane of traffic.
In order to get out of that position you must cross one rail on the left or right of the track. Unless you are moving at a virtual standstill, crossing a rail is exceedingly dangerous if the roadbed is not well maintained, or there is moisture or oil or ice on the tracks.
When you turn your front wheel to one side or the other, it takes time for your motorcycle to yaw into the desired direction of travel. During that time, the front tire is pointing in a different direction than is the rear tire (you are still turning).
Imagine that you are traveling at a relatively low speed (so that you can attain a steering angle of about 20 degrees in an effort to cross a trolley track to your left) as you ride between trolley tracks on your way to a restaurant. By the time your front tire hits the rail, your motorcycle has had time to yaw all of about 17 degrees. Notice that even though the front tire's attack angle is close to 40 degrees, the motorcycle's attack angle is only about 17 degrees.
Your bike has an EXCELLENT chance of capsizing and of ending up on its RIGHT side. And, by the way, scraping and gouging its way across an oncoming lane of traffic before it comes to rest. And you?
Hope you're wearing a FULL-FACE HELMET!!
See why you do not want to be turning when you cross over tracks in the road?
By the way, most states provide a Motorcycle Handbook to the public in which they make suggestions about safe riding. Relative to trolley tracks, the handbooks are silent on the issue of whether or not to ride between them if they are embedded in a parallel fashion to the roadway. But they do make the suggestion that if you are going to cross tracks that are parallel to your path of travel, you should move away from the tracks before attempting to cross them in order to attain as large an 'attack angle' as possible.
Unfortunately, the advise is simply of trivial value since even if you move a full lane away from the tracks before attempting to cross them, you cannot attain an attack angle of at least 45 degrees while traveling at any speed above 10 MPH.
Copyright © 1992 - 2012 by The Master Strategy Group, all rights reserved.
http://www.msgroup.org
(James R. Davis is a recognized expert witness in the fields of Motorcycle Safety/Dynamics.)
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| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Sometimes a policeman can be your worst nightmare
|
James R. Davis
02/03/2012 6:04 PM |
In a case on which I was engaged as an expert witness, I was presented evidence that frankly I could not believe. Despite all the other evidence, a lead investigator on the case demonstrated why you always need to have an objective expert witness to opine on the evidence in the case.
A little background ...
After dinner at a restaurant, a motorcyclist and his wife mounted their motorcycle for a short trip to their hotel. Along the way, a damaged and badly maintained street surface next to a trolley track tripped up the motorcycle's front wheel and dumped the couple onto the ground. He, as rider, had just begun a left turn into a left turn lane when the accident occurred. The wife nearly died while the husband suffered broken bones in his wrist and some road rash.
There had been no drinking involved, no speeding, no improper behavior (stunting), and no other vehicle was involved. Indeed, there was no evidence of any rider error at all contributing to this accident.
An ambulance arrived and took the couple to the hospital. Then the police arrived at the scene.
After waiting to be sure that his wife would receive proper care, and before he was treated himself, the husband returned to the scene of the accident to assist the police prepare an accident report and to see what happened to his motorcycle.
That, believe it or not, is when things got out of control in the long run.
He was issued a ticket for "failure to maintain control".
The lead accident investigator was not happy. No idea what the sum of that officer's problem's were, but let's look at a part of my report on the case which should cause you to sit up and scream:
quote:
The lead investigator on this accident scene, Sergeant xxxxx xxxxxxx, was deposed on xxxxxx xx, xx. During her testimony, she put forth a number of conclusions that were, in her own words, based on intuition and assumptions. These conclusions lacked regard for or consideration of other facts which were evident. Indeed, on at least one occasion she fabricated or at least misrepresented evidence in order to support her conclusions.
1. Sergeant xxxxxxxx opined that "... a person would not have made an eastbound turn prior to getting to the hotel." This was based on intuition and assumptions that led her to believe that Mr. xxxxxx was not attempting a left turn at the time of his accident despite clear and compelling evidence that Mr. xxxxxxx did, in fact, attempt to make a left turn at the point of the accident. Sergeant xxxxxxx's opinion in this regard is irrational given other indisputable evidence.
a. Plaintiff xxxxx xxxxxxx claimed to have attempted to turn left at the point of the accident.
b. The scrape and gouge marks left by Mr. xxxxxx's motorcycle along with the position of the pool of Mrs. xxxxxxx's blood showed that the motorcycle traveled 45 feet in a south-easterly direction across an oncoming lane, instead of southerly. The motorcycle's momentum established its travel direction during the slide.
Had the motorcycle merely edged too close to the trolley track and been tripped into a capsize, the motorcycle would have slid in a southerly direction; but having had its travel direction changed to a south-easterly direction before encountering that rail and subsequent capsize, the motorcycle continued in a south-easterly direction during its slide.
c. The route that Mr. xxxxxxxxx knew of and had planned to take was a rational and convenient route back to his hotel. This consisted of using the left-turn lane beginning at the point of the accident, turning left onto xxxxxxxxxx Street, then turning right onto xxxxxx Avenue.
d. There is no evidence that Mr. xxxxxxxx did not attempt to turn left at the point of the accident.
2. Sergeant xxxxxxxx claimed that xxxxxxxxx Street was a dead-end street.
a. xxxxxxxxx Street is not a dead-end street.
3. Sergeant xxxxxxxx claimed that xxxxxxx Avenue is a one-way street going northbound.
a. xxxxxxxx Avenue is a one-way street going southbound.
4. Sergeant xxxxxxxx refused to consider that her assumptions about Mr. xxxxxxx's travel plans were faulty.
a. Sergeant xxxxxxxx stated in her testimony, "There's no reason for me to even think that they're faulty."
5. Sergeant xxxxxxxx, in response to the question "Is there an angle that's required to safely cross?" when talking about a motorcycle crossing trolley tracks, testified that "Yes, sir. It's supposed to be at a 45-degree angle." (Emphasis added.)
a. Riding motorcycles is not safe. Nobody can claim that any particular behavior renders crossing over a trolley track safe.
b. An angle of 45 degrees is not required in order to cross over a trolley track. It is a recommended minimum angle for surmounting any obstacle that cannot be avoided in a roadway. The actual recommended angle for minimizing the risk of crossing a trolley track is as close as possible to 90 degrees. But so long as the tracks are not moist and there are no elevation differences or damaged roadbeds associated with those tracks, they can be crossed with relative safety at virtually any angle. The tracks at the site of Mr. xxxxxxx's accident were in such disrepair and the elevation differences between the tracks and the roadbed adjacent to them was so severe that it was impossible to cross them with relative safety at almost any angle.
6. Sergeant xxxxxxxx stated, "When you take your motorcycle license test, it is required at a 45-degree angle." (Emphasis added.)
a. This is not true. There is no motorcycle driving test that requires crossing over any obstacle in the roadway. Any written test question about crossing over tracks in a roadway would not specify a 45-degree angle as a recommendation other than as a minimum.
7. Sergeant xxxxxxx testified, "It's not possible to get a 45-degree angle to be able to turn within two tracks."
a. It is possible to attain a crossing angle substantially greater than 45 degrees from within two tracks. To do so merely requires a relatively low speed.
8. Sight unseen, Sergeant xxxxxxxx implied throughout two pages of testimony that one or both of the Plaintiffs were wearing 'novelty helmets', which is a form of non-DOT-approved headgear that is illegal for use while riding a motorcycle.
a. Both Mr. and Mrs. xxxxxxx were wearing legal, DOT-approved, helmets at the time of the accident.
b. Sergeant xxxxxxxx's familiarity with 'novelty helmets' is based on her admitted personal ownership of such a helmet, but not on her examination of the helmets Plaintiffs wore on the day in question. She has never examined them.
9. Sergeant xxxxxxxx declared, "There would be no reason to ride between the west trolley track and the east trolley track, you would not ride your motorcycle in-between the two tracks."
a. Clearly there was a reason for Mr. xxxxxxx to do so as he was, in fact, riding between the trolley tracks. As to the implication that there would be no good reason for doing so, in fact it was necessary for Plaintiffs to ride there to be in the correct lane before turning left.
10. Sergeant xxxxxxx then declared an untruth to support her allegation that a person would not ride between tracks by stating "The xxxxxxxxx Motorcycle Handbook states such and so does xxxxxxxx."
a. As described earlier, the xxxxxxxxx Motorcycle Handbook is completely silent on the matter of riding between tracks. It speaks only about how to cross tracks.
11. Sergeant xxxxxxxx then manufactured another mistruth to support her conclusions by stating, "Both of them [the xxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxx Handbooks] are verbatim when it comes to riding parallel with tracks." (Emphasis added.)
a. Nothing in either of the handbooks speaks to the issue of riding between parallel tracks or riding next to them.
12. When arguing about the issue of riding between trolley tracks, Sergeant xxxxxxxxx stated, "There would be no reason why a prudent person who rides a motorcycle would ride in the middle of the tracks when you have a full lane on the west hand side to ride in."
a. Again, there was clearly a reason to ride between the trolley tracks, as that is exactly what Mr. xxxxxxxx did. Sergeant xxxxxx has no evidence upon which to form an opinion related to the issue of whether this was prudent at the time and under the conditions prevailing at the time of this accident.
b. Subsequent testimony from Sergeant xxxxxxxx about the lack of any traffic in the western lane of southbound xxxxxxx Street relied on her assumption that there were no cars parked there because of signage prohibiting it. But there is no evidence about whether cars were parked there at the time of the accident, and Sergeant xxxxxxx admitted that there is also no evidence that there was no traffic in the western lane of southbound xxxxxx Street at the time of the accident.
13. Sergeant xxxxxxxx stated, "If I physically had done the ticket, I would have put additional charges on there, correct." Among those charges, she said, would have been "leaving the scene", "which is considered a hit-and-run". (Another officer wrote the ticket.)
a. Mr. xxxxxxx was taken from the scene of the accident in the ambulance which was also transporting his wife to the hospital. He had extensive injuries, including broken bones, at the time.
b. Mr. xxxxxxx returned to the scene even before he was treated for his injuries.
As a result of discerning many inconsistencies, errors, irrational arguments, misstatements, and untruths in the testimony of Sergeant xxxxxxxx, it is my opinion that her testimony should be disregarded entirely. I find it to be non-objective, prejudicial, uninformed, and biased.
This was a civil trial. Imagine the damage the officer could have done in a criminal matter. |
| Motorcycle Safety / Campfire chat |
| International Motorcycle Show, Washington DC
|
rayg50
02/03/2012 5:35 PM |
quote:
are there deals to be had from the vendors that show up?
Yes and No. LOL.
My personal experience has been that you have to be an educated consumer. 300 for a Shoei may be a steal but for another brand it may just be robbery.  If you know the normal retail in most instances you can get the price brought down to where you both do OK on the deal. Keep in mind that your purchases are pretty much as-is since the vendor is most likely from out of town and gone in a day or 2.
BTW, the best deals I have gotten at any type of "expo" has been as they are closing up on the last day. They can lug it home or put some cash in their pocket. YOU just have to know what you would have paid elsewhere.
I usually will get one or two good buys but I manage to offset the gain with the 5 gallon drum of chrome cleaner and windmill driven battery tender. 
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| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Did my first group ride......
|
Cash Anthony
02/03/2012 5:31 PM |
Ron, since you mentioned you're familiar with some of these riders, they might thank you for either pointing them to this website or downloading and printing (or emailing the link) for the Group Riding Guidelines you'll find here.
The guidelines explain why you need a lead bike and a drag (also called the tailgunner) for each group of six riders. The lead bikes should know where you're going and what route you'll take, and the drag bikes should be your most experienced riders. If possible, each lead and drag pair should also have CB radios to communicate with when they are shepherding the riders in their groups.
We have an extensive section on Group Riding in Volume II of Motorcycle Safety and Dynamics. There's a lot going on when riding in a group, and if you have other riders who haven't done much of it, they may thank you for showing them some information that everyone can use.
Cash
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| Motorcycle Safety / Campfire chat |
| International Motorcycle Show, Washington DC
|
SAS Mayhem
02/03/2012 4:27 PM |
For those who have gone to these shows are there deals to be had from the vendors that show up? Or can you shop online and get the same deals. Helmets,gloves etc...
Cheers
Ron |
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Tip: Scooter quick stop (for newbies)
|
Axiom2000
02/03/2012 3:38 PM |
What you describing is a malady that affects many new riders; it can be a scary thing, especially in training new riders. A student applies the brakes and the engine begins revving unexpectedly, the scary part is if the student loses presence of mind and goes into panic mode by sound of the engine revving. In the worst cases the student is tearing off across the range holding on for dear life with the instructors in full chase yelling "Clutch Clutch". Many of these incidents have been eliminated by briefing the students that if at anytime they feel uncomfortable or out of control to simply squeeze both levers and keep them squeezed until the bike comes to a stop.
A couple of things to watch for to help alleviate the issue. Make sure you are holding the throttle with a flat wrist, and insure you are using the lever by squeezing it with your fingers pulling straight back and not using a rotary motion with the entire hand to apply the brakes. Also make sure of the position of the lever relative to the throttle grip is correct, looking from the front of the machine the lever should be about in the middle of the grip, not high or low. The lever position is adjustable on most machines by loosening two nuts and rotating the lever up or down, some are also adjustable as to the distance between the lever and the grip by way of a little wheel with numbers 1 through 4 at the base of the lever. Yours may not have that feature
Inadvertent throttle application while braking is a serious rider error and needs to be corrected quickly. With the engine off, practice rolling on and then rolling off the throttle and squeezing the brake lever, insuring the throttle is not being rolled on while braking. Practice this as many times as you have to, to insure the correct motion is the one you will use instinctively. Inadvertently rolling on the throttle while braking is not something you want to have happen when your life may depend on how good your braking skills are.
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| Did my first group ride......
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SAS Mayhem
02/03/2012 2:52 PM |
Good points but in all those observations, the drivers did signal us to proceed in all cases. Unfortunate the camera did not focus on that. This is one of the topics that that was discussed. too... we don't have the go-ahead to cruise through .... But the drivers did signal us or give the hand gesture, on the first one and all others. These are excellent inputs that I will bring if we do another.
Cash, that was a large group, and we did get split up, too.
Cheers
Ron |
| Did my first group ride......
|
rkfire
02/03/2012 1:49 PM |
So, they discussed red lights. What about the first stop sign, right off, that everyone rolled right through. And there was traffic coming from each way too! |
| Irresponsible Accident Reconstructionist Advice
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Cash Anthony
02/03/2012 1:31 PM |
Here's another, similar issue. The following is a quote:
"It is usually easier to steer out of a situation than to stop. Because total stopping distance -- perception, reaction and braking -- eats up so much time and distance, it is often faster to swerve around a problem than to stop before you become part of it.
"The 2-second rule was created to allow drivers to swerve out of danger, not necessarily to stop. The 2-second-or-more rule was developed to give drivers time to swerve or stop, as the situation requires."
That's from a recently edited (2009) defensive driving course! Not one set up for motorcyclists in particular, but it's still wrong.
Cash
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| Tip: Scooter quick stop (for newbies)
|
kacinpa
02/03/2012 1:09 PM |
quote:
Originally posted by gymnast
"You just have to practice braking more until releasing the thumb becomes muscle memory." Is this what you actually mean to say?
Always roll the throttle off, never close it by releasing thumb pressure on the grip.
Or, said another way.
Never, ever, close the throttle by using lessened grip to allow the return spring to close the throttle rather than manually turning it closed when braking. Roll the throttle closed with thumb grip while reaching for the brake lever with you fingers. You needn't be in motion or even have the engine running to practice the technique.
+1 Gymnast.
When I first started riding I had my wrist too high and as a result would not roll off the throttle when squeezing the brake lever. Of course on a motorcycle with a clutch and the clutch pulled in it's more of an embarrassment of a racing engine than fighting the engine driving the bike with the brakes as on an AT scooter. I was quickly cured of this bad habit the first day in the BRC.
Teabowl1, if you continually find yourself not rolling off the throttle when engaging the right brake lever, try to make sure that your wrist is not too high when you first grip the throttle, i.e. in a position to "really wind up" the throttle as you accelerate.
And as Gymnast mentioned, you should positively roll off the throttle, not let the spring return it to base position. Springs fail and it is best to be in the habit of rolling the throttle off rather than counting on the spring. |
| Did my first group ride......
|
Cash Anthony
02/03/2012 1:08 PM |
I'm glad you had a good time and enjoyed your first group ride.
But if you plan to do another one, I hope it will be with a smaller group (or else that your road captain breaks the group up into smaller units).
That sounds like far, far too many bikes to be in a single group. It should be more like five or six, eight at the outside.
No wonder you had to have someone in the middle who knew where you were going!
It also surprises me that a group ride that's being led by, or organized by, a RiderCoach would allow that many bikes in one group. Most experienced group riders know better than to do that, and why not to.
One last observation: your helmet camera gave away the fact that you aren't turning your head much to check for traffic coming across your path in intersections.  Some of your fellow riders never looked to their left at all before pulling out onto the road at the last stop -- and if that car's driver hadn't been nice enough to stop and put on his blinkers before everyone got out, it could have turned out rather differently.
Just because you're in a group and someone else is leading the way doesn't mean you (or any other rider) is automatically safe when entering a roadway.
Each rider needs to remember to ride your own ride, as if there's no one else out there but you. I expect this was covered in your pre-ride briefing (and bravo! that there was one and it was a good one), so you probably heard this, but you can see that not everyone followed that advice.
Cash |
| Tip: Scooter quick stop (for newbies)
|
gymnast
02/03/2012 12:45 PM |
"You just have to practice braking more until releasing the thumb becomes muscle memory." Is this what you actually mean to say?
Always roll the throttle off, never close it by releasing thumb pressure on the grip.
Or, said another way.
Never, ever, close the throttle by using lessened grip to allow the return spring to close the throttle rather than manually turning it closed when braking. Roll the throttle closed with thumb grip while reaching for the brake lever with you fingers. You needn't be in motion or even have the engine running to practice the technique.
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| Tip: Scooter quick stop (for newbies)
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Scooterwolf
02/03/2012 12:21 PM |
It does. It's happened to me before when I first began riding. I would still have my thumb locked around the throttle. As I squeezed the brake control it would cause the throttle to roll towards me, giving power to the engine and causing the bike to lurch forward as I was trying to brake.
You just have to practice braking more until releasing the thumb becomes muscle memory. I've been riding my scooter more than driving our car, so much that sometimes I tend to squeeze the steering wheel to brake instead of using my foot.
-Wolf
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| Did my first group ride......
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SAS Mayhem
02/03/2012 9:06 AM |
and it turned out very good. Most of them I know from http://www.meetup.com/motorcycle-109/Over 25 bike in all, mostly HD's bout there were Vulcan's, Honda's in the mix too. All the rider are very laid back and not the (hey everyone look at me type....) What I like the most about the ride was the briefing before hand. Everyone really listened and asked questions about the route. Safety, staggered formation and so on was discussed in depth as was responsibly. We talked about hand signals and possible road hazards too and no running red light. There were no hotdoggers or EGO heavy riders. The leader that came up with the route is a riding coach and there was another route leader in the middle, just in case we got separated and the tail back is a retired cop....and we all have a passion for riding. I was the only Connie in the bunch and I finally got to use my helmet cam. One on the riders owns a business that does media editing so the following weekend we did some editing. I picked out the music and he did the editing. I might get a editing program and try it out myself. You all can check it out , it's about 6:00 min long. I'm thinking of getting another camera and attaching it to my forks, fairing or maybe one of the bags. Here is the link for my first video...... http://forgedmedia.com/client/ChilliRide.wmv Enjoy
P.S. If you look at the video it's about 6 minutes long, about 100 megs. Just letting you all know
Cheers
Ron |
| Motorcycle Safety / Rider Training Courses |
| Experienced Rider Seminar
|
kacinpa
02/03/2012 6:03 AM |
quote:
Originally posted by Night Train
At the risk of going "off topic", I am intrigued by your comment regarding the BRC and ERC being free in PA. How much is the add-on fee for the M license? Sounds to me like a system designed with safety foremost as opposed to simply paying lip service to safety and obtaining revenue.
I think it's $5.00. I'm pretty sure not all of that goes towards the courses, PENNDOT also runs Motorcycle awareness ad campaigns in the spring, and a separate campaign encouraging wearing gear and riding safely they call "Live Free, Ride Alive". But despite the crazy helmet laws here, they do have a decent focus of safety. |
| Experienced Rider Seminar
|
Night Train
02/03/2012 5:29 AM |
quote:
Originally posted by kacinpa
quote:
Originally posted by SkootchNC
Absolutely... I'd attend, if in my area....
but......
I'd suggest taking the ERC at your local community college, as a day on the bike under the watchful eyes of the MSF instructor, would (IMO) be more useful than a 90 minute Seminar
I'm the kind of person, who needs to practice, and build motor skills....
I did the ERC last spring with the PAMSP. Here in PA the BRC and ERC are offered free (paid for by an add-on fee to M licenses) and you can take them as often as you can find a slot. I plan on doing the ERC again, but will likely wait this year until I get another bike. I think it will aid in the acclimation process.
I figured the seminar can't hurt, but I agree it is no substitute for actual riding.
At the risk of going "off topic", I am intrigued by your comment regarding the BRC and ERC being free in PA. How much is the add-on fee for the M license? Sounds to me like a system designed with safety foremost as opposed to simply paying lip service to safety and obtaining revenue. |
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
D R
02/02/2012 3:18 PM |
quote:
Originally posted by teabowl1
Addition:
And I guess the other thing is this:
On the two scooter forums I peruse, I have noticed time and time again that when someone announces an accident they were involved in there is no, if any, discussion about what actually lead to the accident. Rather, the typical response is a sort of camaraderie (which is nice) that builds towards blaming "cagers" (not so good) and it ends at that. A kind of "pat on the back good feel" without figuring out how to avoid something similar the next time.
Don't hesitate to point the others on the scooter forums to this site, especially the section on Motorcycle Accident Reports. Motorcycle or scooter, two wheels are two wheels. |
| Motorcycle Safety / Rider Training Courses |
| Experienced Rider Seminar
|
kacinpa
02/02/2012 3:01 PM |
quote:
Originally posted by SkootchNC
Absolutely... I'd attend, if in my area....
but......
I'd suggest taking the ERC at your local community college, as a day on the bike under the watchful eyes of the MSF instructor, would (IMO) be more useful than a 90 minute Seminar
I'm the kind of person, who needs to practice, and build motor skills....
I did the ERC last spring with the PAMSP. Here in PA the BRC and ERC are offered free (paid for by an add-on fee to M licenses) and you can take them as often as you can find a slot. I plan on doing the ERC again, but will likely wait this year until I get another bike. I think it will aid in the acclimation process.
I figured the seminar can't hurt, but I agree it is no substitute for actual riding. |
| Experienced Rider Seminar
|
SkootchNC
02/02/2012 12:51 PM |
Absolutely... I'd attend, if in my area....
but......
I'd suggest taking the ERC at your local community college, as a day on the bike under the watchful eyes of the MSF instructor, would (IMO) be more useful than a 90 minute Seminar
I'm the kind of person, who needs to practice, and build motor skills.... |
| Word of the day - proprioceptive
|
gymnast
02/02/2012 10:28 AM |
Here is a new "word" for you Daddio (or any else that wants to take a shot at it). This term relates to what separates beginning riders from highly experienced riders and what may be missing or cause problems when you get on a bike that is different from the one/ones that you regularly ride.
"Subcortical motor skills" |
| Experienced Rider Seminar
|
gymnast
02/02/2012 10:19 AM |
Sounds interesting, I hope you can share what was emphasized after you have attended. |
| Experienced Rider Seminar
|
kacinpa
02/02/2012 8:07 AM |
I noticed on the web page of a local dealer that they are running what they call an "Experienced Rider Seminar" in 2 weeks. As I embrace the philosophy "If it's free, it's me!" I signed up!
Here is the description of the seminar from their website (http://www.martinmoto.com/default.a...ge=xcalendar
quote:
An experienced Motorcycle Saftey Foundation (MSF) riding coach will teach you the reaction skills, the mental thought processes and bring his knowledge, videos and practical application to a 90 minute seminar that Martin Motorsports is lucky to host. This seminar is one of those experiences you have where you just realized there was a whole encyclopedia set of knowledge and you thought you were full on just the Cliff#65533;s notes. You will walk out realizing you just learned something new after 20 years on the road and you just relearned things you forgot the minute you got your license.
Actually test your eye sight, do real reaction skills testing your hand-eye-coordination, and test your road knowledge. Thought you knew everything about motorcycles? Think again.
I am not sure what to expect, but it sounds like a video presentation and perhaps a simulator. I will report back on my experience after I attend the seminar. |
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
rayg50
02/02/2012 6:17 AM |
quote:
I'm more of the impression that rider error often plays a big role in these scooter accidents.
In a multi-vehicle accident there are usually multiple contributors to the cause. If you've read some of the threads here you will find that the members here analyze those contributions with a focus on the riders contribution. The reasoning is that the rider cannot control the actions of the other actors, they can however control their own actions. So the focus is on what the rider could have done to avoid the accident.
IMO, we have lost some members in the time that I have been a member because they mistakenly take the analysis as criticism or finger pointing. The value in the analysis is taking away what we (and they) can do to avoid an accident. You cannot change the other person only yourself. I am glad to see that you realize the value in an unbiased eye pointing out areas for improvement both in the physical and mental aspects of riding.
If you have not already read the safety tips and some of the threads please do so. Ask whatever questions come to mind. It benefits you and others that are hesitant to ask. There is much that I have learned from tips, threads, and questions.
|
| Motorcycle Safety / Technical/Maintenance |
| Occasional use of Seafoam. Any good?
|
SkootchNC
02/02/2012 6:06 AM |
Unless your bike/scooter is going to be parked for a month or more. There isn't much need for either a "stabilizer" or cleaner.
If you are concerned with keeping your engine clean, There are many products that will clean a fuel injection system, and others that will clean a carburetor system. Both are readily available at any auto store (Pep Boys, AutoZone, Wal-Mart,etc). It certainly won't hurt to use any of them, per the instructions on the container.
Fifth, or tenth tank? well.... that would depend on length of time/miles per tank. You're a better judge of your scooter's health than I.
Weather wise???? LOL don't count this "winter" for anything. This was the third warmest winter at RDU, but last winter... was the third coldest winter at RDU. There was an eleven degree (average day time temps) swing between 2010-2011, and 2011-2012. Last year we had several snowfalls. This year none. (source WRAL-TV weather).
Should you decide to store your bike for a winter.. or other extended period. Here is a link to the AMA article on that.
http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com...keRight.aspx
Just as important... AFTER storage... how to prepare the bike/scooter for use
http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com...rSpring.aspx
Whether you are a member of AMA, or not, these articles are available for the general public. Bookmark, and enjoy.
regards
Frank |
| Motorcycle Safety / Sharing of Lessons Learned |
| PLP vital after even a brief hiatus
|
proney2009
02/02/2012 12:30 AM |
I don't know if my PLP practice strategy is advisable or not. Perhaps others can chime in, but I will start off by practicing stops at slow speeds using only the front brake and then gradually I will work the rear brake in. Then I will increase speed slightly and do the same thing again.
My reasoning is that the front brake is our most important stopping device and the rear brake is there to make the stop smoother. And of course, it also helps me to avoid the rear-brake lock-up. |
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Irresponsible Accident Reconstructionist Advice
|
teabowl1
02/01/2012 6:48 PM |
The diagram helps to explain what you mean by lateral movement. Thanks! |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
teabowl1
02/01/2012 6:44 PM |
Addition:
And I guess the other thing is this:
On the two scooter forums I peruse, I have noticed time and time again that when someone announces an accident they were involved in there is no, if any, discussion about what actually lead to the accident. Rather, the typical response is a sort of camaraderie (which is nice) that builds towards blaming "cagers" (not so good) and it ends at that. A kind of "pat on the back good feel" without figuring out how to avoid something similar the next time.
There's no honest look at the actual accident -- rider skills, judgement, conditions, etc. I mean, there isn't a conscious building of safer riding, but rather a conscious building of "us (scooters) vs. them (cagers)" kind of camaraderie. Not helpful, really. As a once very avid commuter and touring bicyclist, I've heard enough of "us vs. them" kind of community consciousness in bicycle communities.
I'm more of the impression that rider error often plays a big role in these scooter accidents. Furthermore, having a kind of antagonistic attitude towards cagers while on the road (which is how it seems to be sometimes in the scooter forums) doesn't seem to help build focus on how oneself, the rider, is actually riding. In the 250 miles that I've ridden, I've certainly noticed small errors I've made and wouldn't be surprised that there are others I missed.
Just my few thoughts. Thank you :-) |
| Tip: Scooter quick stop (for newbies)
|
teabowl1
02/01/2012 6:33 PM |
quote:
Originally posted by Scooterwolf
I think I tend to release my throttle when braking as it will automatically roll forward causing engine compression as I brake. Sorry, I misunderstood you about having a clutch.
What kind of scooter are you riding?
I think what has happened the first few times is when I progressively squeeze the front brake levers, I have forgotten to first let the wrist/thumb first go before resettling on the now neutral throttle. Does what I write make sense?
I ride a Piaggio BV 250. |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
teabowl1
02/01/2012 10:31 AM |
quote:
Originally posted by Night Train
Teabowl1, I have to agree that 1 month and 250 miles experience is not a whole lot. But, having said that I must also say, I am most impressed with your approach to learning and your overall attitude toward riding.
Your persistent PLP, desire to learn, and eagerness to ask questions presents a model for other new riders to follow. Kudos to you and best wishes on your continued future adventures into the world of 2 wheels.
Thanks, Night Train.
I think it has helped that I'm really more of a scooter user than a scooter enthusiast. I'm not as frenzied and crazed about "getting on the road" for a thrilling ride with "wind blowing in my hair" etc. Over a decade of bicycle commuting, though admittedly is different than riding a powered two wheel, has given me a flavour of open road riding. Of course I enjoy it but it's not like I get a thrill from doing it.
My spouse on the other hand.... hahah. He's been watching scooter videos online every night after work and dreaming about what scooter to get. I think he's an enthusiast while I'm just a user interested in getting from A to B. Now he's preparing to take his first rider training course at a Harley Davidson dealership. Unfortunately he can't enroll at any of the MSF courses because he works weekends. I have read about issues in those Rider Edge training courses on this forum. |
| Motorcycle Safety / Technical/Maintenance |
| Occasional use of Seafoam. Any good?
|
Night Train
02/01/2012 9:47 AM |
Seafoam and fuel stabilizers, from my experience are ideal products when laying up my bike for the winter season. During the riding season when the bike rarely sits idle, I add a couple of ounces of Carb/fuel injection cleaner to every second tank of gas or so, more or less to keep the carb clean. It also serves to deal with any moisture that may build up in the tank. |
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
Night Train
02/01/2012 9:41 AM |
Teabowl1, I have to agree that 1 month and 250 miles experience is not a whole lot. But, having said that I must also say, I am most impressed with your approach to learning and your overall attitude toward riding.
Your persistent PLP, desire to learn, and eagerness to ask questions presents a model for other new riders to follow. Kudos to you and best wishes on your continued future adventures into the world of 2 wheels. |
| Irresponsible Accident Reconstructionist Advice
|
James R. Davis
02/01/2012 8:25 AM |
For our newer readers ... just a simple diagram to show you what I meant by cars being able to attain more lateral distance in an obstacle avoidance maneuver because motorcycles must use counter-steering.
 |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
teabowl1
02/01/2012 8:23 AM |
Thanks for giving me so much to think about and to assess. Very helpful!
I do have car driving experience. I used to commute 50 minutes one-way to work for several years, 90% on the freeway. I lived just off of a freeway exit and my workplace was also just off of an exit. I do drive my husband's car every now and then, usually to take him to the airport and pick him up.
I have about 250 miles on the scooter. Not much, I know. I'm not in a hurry to get on the freeway and after reading all these things to consider, I think it would be better for me to wait until after my BikeSafe NC class in early April. Having someone assess my riding skills at the course and suggesting what I'm doing wrong and right would help to prepare for higher speed riding. Also makes me wonder if I could eventually solicit one of those instructors to follow me through a short freeway ride and give suggestions.
I'm not in a hurry : - )
Oh, I also agree with Axiom2000's opinion that the freeway experience can be mind numbing. I found that when I was driving my Corolla some years back. It wasn't so much boring as "hypnotic". |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
Indiana Randy
02/01/2012 8:17 AM |
You have received excellent advice.
Keep in mind that on a freeway, things can happen faster. You come up on debris in the road faster. The occasional speeding car can come up on you faster. You may have to slow down faster.
It's important to keep your eyes scanning; 2 seconds ahead, 4 seconds ahead, 12 seconds ahead, mirror - mirror- repeat...
The tendency will be for you to tighten your arms, shoulders, hands. Instead, do your best to stay relaxed and focused upon everything around you.
Finally, remember to move with the traffic. Moving too slowly makes you a hazard.
Enjoy and let us know how it goes! |
| Tip: Scooter quick stop (for newbies)
|
Scooterwolf
02/01/2012 8:02 AM |
I think I tend to release my throttle when braking as it will automatically roll forward causing engine compression as I brake. Sorry, I misunderstood you about having a clutch.
What kind of scooter are you riding?
|
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
Scooterwolf
02/01/2012 7:59 AM |
Hi Teabow,
As a fellow scooter rider with highway experience I'll offer my own tips based on my own experience.
When approaching the highway make sure your merging lane allows you enough length to get up to speed if you are merging into on coming traffic. This is especially true at night where gauging distance of on coming cars is more difficult.
I agree with james' assessment about going farther than one exit. You need to feel comfortable on a freeway and that means finding a bubble. Cars tend to group together on highways in what David Hough calls wolf packs. Avoid these when possible and instead find the areas in-between -- a bubble -- where no one is around. Once established do everything you can to keep free of cars riding along side you. Use your controls to either stay ahead, or behind other cars in adjacent lanes. The idea here is to see and be seen and not be caught in a drivers blind spot.
NEVER trust your mirrors when changing lanes. Any lane change requires you to look over your shoulder. You will be surprised at how many cars, trucks, and SUVs I've spotted in my blind spot when my mirrors revealed nothing.
Like James also said avoid riding behind truck and buses. Their blind spot extends 200 feet behind them. If you are behind one I'd suggest favoring the left side of the lane until you can see their side view mirror, giving them a chance to see you too.
Be aware of buckles that cross perpendicular to your riding path and other road hazards. Buckles will give you a pretty big bump and if you are not ready for them, especially a big one it can cause you a momentary loss of control.
I would also suggest NOT changing lanes at high speeds on a tight curve, as it may throw you across the lane you are attempting to move into.
Last, be aware of the conditions of the driving (middle or right) lane(s) as they may have riding groves in them from on going trucks. They can make a valley or grove that can be a little difficult to get out of if bad enough. I've seen real bad ones on I-5 in california, but not so many on the East coast.
|
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
Axiom2000
02/01/2012 4:18 AM |
My guess is you will find after you spend some time on the freeway, they are just absolutely boring. Of course riding the freeways is the quickest way to get from point A to B so many times when you need to get somewhere they are the most convenient routes to follow.
Statistically, my guess is motorcycle wrecks happen less on freeways but I think the consequences of being separated from your machine or a collision at freeway speeds are much deadlier. I find on long freeway trips it is more difficult to maintain concentration, the uniformity of the road and scenery tends to cause a loss of focus. My mind begins to wander I begin to think of things other than a good margin of safety, doing frequent mirror and head checks, watching for vehicles merging on and off. I have to force myself back into a proper state of mind. As James pointed out, the need to focus on what is happening further down the road is critical at freeway speeds. Things can get out of hand quickly at 60 MPH when something bad happens a quarter mile ahead.
One of the things I dislike the most, however are trucks, big rig trucks and motorcycles do not make good company. They are noisy, they block sight lines both to and from you, they leave a big hole in the air that can cause turbulence for a long distance behind and a side draft when passing. My best advice on trucks is to stay away from them as much as you can, if you need to pass one then, as they say git er done, don't dilly dally riding next to one. Did I mention I dislike big trucks.
|
| Motorcycle Safety / Technical/Maintenance |
| Occasional use of Seafoam. Any good?
|
gymnast
01/31/2012 11:39 PM |
Here is the Seafoam Website that describes the purposes and characteristics of the product. http://www.seafoamsales.com/ As Scott said, "Why do you think you need it?"
I put about an ounce per gallon with about the same amount of Stabil in the fuel cans that I use to top off the bikes, lawn mower, outboard motor, and generator, then run the engine so as to get the treated fuel into the float bowls when I put them up for the winter. If I use any of them before spring, I just add treated fuel from the can. In the spring I use the remaining fuel in the can and untreated gas after that. Seems to work for me. |
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
James R. Davis
01/31/2012 9:54 PM |
You have volume one of my book and assuming you have read it you already know a lot about what to expect on that freeway.
It is fine that you intend to develop your skills one step at a time, and it is fine that you intend to learn how your bike and you feel (and deal with) a little more speed.
But I would like to remind you, especially since if I remember correctly, you have limited or no car driving experience and, thus, little or no freeway experience, that you need to adopt a new mindset when you tackle a freeway. Situational awareness becomes increasingly important. And dealing with errant behavior by car drivers is a hugely more important skill than handling a moving bike at 65 or 70 MPH as compared to 55 MPH.
First thing to consider is NOT to go from entrance to the next exit. Those are the most dangerous parts of normal freeway driving. You will need to pay a lot of attention to traffic to your left (as you enter AND as you exit), merging skills need to be developed, and more rapid acceleration and deceleration than you are used to.
But if you only go from one entrance to the first exit, you will not experience what you will always have to deal with when freeway riding - wind fatigue, having to maintain appropriate following distances (PRACTICE counting one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand) , unexpected need to react to an errant driver's lane change into or across your path of travel, and keeping a constant awareness of what's happening 12 seconds of distance ahead of you.
You won't even experience your own lane changing skill.
I'm not suggesting that you do a 50 mile ride - only that you do more than experience a single entrance/exit span. The mindset needed only comes with broader experience than that and a few miles of travel on the freeway is generally SAFER than either entering or exiting that freeway.
Since you're going out there anyway, add more experience in the process.
Or not. The first time might scare the desire to continue right out of you.  |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
kacinpa
01/31/2012 9:26 PM |
Only you can judge your confidence and ability to take the next step in exposure to risk.
BUT, since you asked, I don't think one month of limited experience means you are ready to head out onto a freeway. Even on a Sunday afternoon with limited traffic getting on a freeway can be daunting on 2 wheels.
You didn't mention how many miles you have ridden over the month since you started riding. Miles is a somewhat better measure of experience than time, in my opinion.
I know the enthusiasm and the desire to keep gaining experiences, but you sometimes need to be sure you are ready before stepping up to the next level of risk / exposure.
That's just my 2 cents. I am sure others will offer their opinions as well. |
| Irresponsible Accident Reconstructionist Advice
|
teabowl1
01/31/2012 8:58 PM |
Wow James! GREAT JOB! And I'm glad that the author was conducive to change! |
| Motorcycle Safety / Technical/Maintenance |
| Occasional use of Seafoam. Any good?
|
kacinpa
01/31/2012 8:53 PM |
I use seafoam in EVERY tank of fuel, but I have carburetors on my bike and the jets and seals don't like ethanol and around here all of the gasoline has ethanol. During the winter my bike can also sit for 2 week, 6 weeks or more, all depending on the weather. This year has been unusual and I have yet to go 2 weeks without riding.
I'm not sure what benefit Seafoam would have for a bike with a FI engine that never sits for more than a week or so.
|
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Preparing to get on freeway (newbie)
|
teabowl1
01/31/2012 8:50 PM |
It's been about a month for me since owning and becoming a scooterist. I'm pretty comfortable riding on city roads including unfamiliar ones. I've also gone on a local highway (NOT freeway) in which the speed is between 45mph and 50mph. I've been doing my parking lot practice and am comfortable doing tight left and right hand turns though this is probably not that relevant for high speed riding.
Now, I'm getting ready to test ride on the freeway for as far as just one exit. That is, getting on the freeway and then taking the next exit. My idea is to do this around noon on a Sunday which is usually very quiet in the Durham area. Any other advice or tips you can give me?
The primary purpose of this exercise is simply to feel how it is to go on the freeway (both how the scooter feels and how I feel) and to start to become more familiar with it. I've gone on 50mph multi-lane roads (even riding at 55mph) several times now and I feel quite comfortable.
Thanks! |
| Motorcycle Safety / Technical/Maintenance |
| Occasional use of Seafoam. Any good?
|
teabowl1
01/31/2012 7:53 PM |
quote:
Originally posted by scottrnelson
Why do you feel the need to use it at all?
Honestly? It's fear! LOL 
On so many forums I've read horror stories about how gasoline mixed with ethanol has very bad effects on small engines, particularly bad for carburettors but also not too good for fuel injected like mine. You know, these types of stories along with how gasoline mixed with ethanol does bad things to the rubber tubes etc. etc. So I've been wondering about preventative maintenance.
I haven't yet found any gas station in my area that states whether or not the gas is ethanol mixed or not. There's no indication whatsoever. I do use the highest octane fuel, as is required by my scooter (95, but the best around here is 93).
Like you wrote, I don't think adding Seafoam would harm the engine. But, if I only used it every now and then as a way to "clean" the tank and fuel lines would the infrequency of using it be just the same as NOT using it? |
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Irresponsible Accident Reconstructionist Advice
|
scottrnelson
01/31/2012 6:50 PM |
quote:
Originally posted by James R. Davis
His reasoning was that cars are so much more massive than motorcycles that they cannot be as agile.
I agree that they're wider, so they might need to move further to avoid hitting a car.
Somebody needs to take that guy for a ride in a good sports car like a Honda S2000 or any Porsche and show him how quickly they can swerve. Of course, if he's as old as you say, that might give him a heart attack or something.  (I'm kidding, I'm kidding.) |
| Motorcycle Safety / Technical/Maintenance |
| Occasional use of Seafoam. Any good?
|
scottrnelson
01/31/2012 6:43 PM |
Why do you feel the need to use it at all?
I've read about Seafoam and would consider using it in a bike that had sat for six months or longer without a fuel stabilizer added, but not in a bike that is ridden regularly. I've never used it and never found the need for it. But it's rare that one of my bikes ever sits for more than two weeks without being ridden. (I think it might have been two weeks since riding my XR650L, but I rode it this morning...)
I don't think it will hurt anything, though. |
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Irresponsible Accident Reconstructionist Advice
|
James R. Davis
01/31/2012 6:41 PM |
I have no idea what he will write in his next edition. He's the author and it's not written yet. But he certainly understood my arguments and agreed with them.
On one issue we discussed we disagreed, however. He made a claim that cars cannot attain as much lateral distance in order to avoid a collision as can a more agile motorcycle given the same distance available to both of them and the same amount of lateral acceleration. I pointed out that motorcycles must first counter-steer and thus travel away from their intended escape path before being able to attempt to move laterally on the desired path. That means that motorcycles cannot attain the same lateral movement as a car if constrained by distance (or g's). His reasoning was that cars are so much more massive than motorcycles that they cannot be as agile. (Given the same lateral acceleration, I expected him to argue that they can EQUALLY perform an obstacle avoidance maneuver.)
We let that pass as he did not write anything like that in his book and I was only interested in coming to an agreement on the safety issues that I mentioned in my original message.
By the way, he is significantly older than I am and has not ridden motorcycles for many years - and his only familiarity with motorcycles is and was with Harley-Davidsons. And not once in his book or our conversation did the term 'counter-steer' occur (from him).
It was a VERY CORDIAL discussion. He was not in the least defensive, nor did he hold onto positions after I challenged them with facts. |
| Motorcycle Safety / Technical/Maintenance |
| Occasional use of Seafoam. Any good?
|
teabowl1
01/31/2012 6:15 PM |
Is the occasional use of Seafoam in the gas tank any use at all to help maintain a clean engine? I do ride a bit everyday or every other day since I don't have a car (although that means my bicycle suffers  ) so I didn't see any advantage in constantly using 2 oz of Seafoam every time I fill up my 2.6 gallon scooter tank. But, what if I added 2oz of it say every 5th or 10th time I fill up the tank? Or would that be as good as not using any Seafoam?
P.S. Winters in the Piedmont area of North Carolina are really not that bad at all (usually sunny!). I would say even better than winter in the San Francisco bay area (often foggy, cloudy, grey) so daytime winter riding is quite doable. No need to garage it :) |
| Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion |
| Tip: Scooter quick stop (for newbies)
|
teabowl1
01/31/2012 5:36 PM |
Gear shifting scooter? You mean like manual transmission? Actually my scooter is a twist-and-go too so that means I can't control the clutch mechanism. I've been making a point of rolling my throttle forward when I need to make quick brakes, which thus far hasn't occurred anywhere except during parking lot practice....thankfully! |
| Irresponsible Accident Reconstructionist Advice
|
D R
01/31/2012 5:25 PM |
quote:
Originally posted by James R. Davis
Mr. Limpert and I just finished a half hour telephone conversation.
He is writing the seventh edition of the book and felt that the timing of my intervention was really quite good.
He agreed with my concerns and will make changes in the 7th edition to accommodate them.
Hopefully his changes are more than a subtle change in text. It should include a complete retraction of his previous erroneous advise... preferably in bold text. |
