en-us Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:15:21 -0500 ATM@msgroup.org 60 All Things Motorcycle - Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/ All Things Motorcycle for Guest http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/ http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/rss_32.png All Things Motorcycle RSS Feed 144 47 Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Crash contributes to advancement in medical science.gymnasthttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11107Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:36:49 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11107 http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...SS&ATTR=News[:u]]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Motorcycle T-bones bicycleJames R. Davishttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11105Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:11:45 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11105
A bicyclist was riding in the left track of the lane on a two-lane (one in each direction) roadway and was being followed by a motorcyclist who decided to pass him on the right. That was just when the bicyclist made a right turn onto a side street and, of course, the motorcyclist T-boned his bike.

The bicycle, as you would expect, was totaled. Its rider was thrown 20 feet and suffered some serious road rash and bruises.

The motorcyclist died at the scene.

Guess which rider was wearing a helmet.
]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - What next?scottrnelsonhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11104&REPLY_ID=107902Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:23:36 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11104 If you look under the photo on the left side, there are seven little photos underneath. Move your cursor under them and they'll replace the larger photo. The first three show the Laptop Steering Wheel Desk in action, then the next four show huge pileups with many, many wrecked vehicles. I wonder if they're hinting that you, too, could cause a large wreck by using the product. [:x)]]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Maintaining Minimum 2 Second Rulehaithabuhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11089&REPLY_ID=107855Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:28:24 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11089 dhalen32
quote:
It seems that current thinking has our hands at 8 and 4 o'clock (or 7 and 5) rather than 10 and 2 or 9 and 3 as I learned many moons ago.


I learned the 9 & 3:00 in driver's ed way back when and my father promptly retrained me to use the current grip. Works way better when you're pulling a trailer. The high grip tends to amplify trailer sway while the low grip dampens it.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Tumbling dicehaithabuhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10980&REPLY_ID=107849Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:44:44 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10980 Thank you Paul. I'm not immune from making mistakes, but I try not to make the same mistake twice!]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Lost an internet friend today - moderator of another forum I followbachman1961http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11080&REPLY_ID=107777Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:44:48 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11080
Sad news John, my thoughts are with you and that of his family and the community that he has influenced.

In a day and age when we are so 'teleported' by technology, I am reminded that my early memories are that of a close-nit family and friends that all enjoyed sharing our time together doing things of common interest such as motorcycling. Life has become 'busy' and we are often far off the path of spending as much time with these others, yet the technology does mend the fences a bit and I appreciate what would otherwise be a broken link in these connections ... the extended network of family and friends by sites like this.

~brian]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Deer, Bike, Michigan, againbachman1961http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11071&REPLY_ID=107738Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sun, 15 Nov 2009 02:58:27 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11071
That Thumb area was 1/3 of my sales/service area from '84 through '92 .. pretty country, wide open and begs for speed. Deer country in those days was to my north as Standish, Gladwin or Au Gres.
My biggest Thumb fear was the bumpkins that would occasionally blow stop signs (and at pretty impressive speeds).
Never had the opportunity to ride a cycle out in those parts but the ride up through Caseville - Pt Austin and over by Harbor Beach is peppered with great scenery and nice town-folk. Michigan has a great network of Hospitals. I hope the rider fairs well in his recovery.

~brian

]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Gas station mishaphaithabuhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10941&REPLY_ID=107589Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:03:01 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10941 Sadly, Rick Ragali remains in intensive care a month after his accident. This is a reminder to me that the subjects of these accident reports are not just examples to critique. They are real persons who continue to suffer the results of their mistakes/mishaps long after they pass beyond our notice.

Often, those mistakes are ones that we have made ourselves - seemingly minor lapses in judgment or attention that for these people have brought on disproportionate consequences.

Riding seems to be like combat in that sense. In a combat zone a lit cigarette can mean the difference between life and death; in riding it could be an overlooked grease patch.




http://www.registercitizen.com/arti...61816672.txt]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Riding instructor lesson learnedAKRefugeehttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11045&REPLY_ID=107488Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:59:46 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11045 That was no accident. That was a wreck trying to find a place to happen. That is a group I would not be riding with under any conditions. All of them were crossing the yellow line and the two handed wave was sure impressive.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - FixationAKRefugeehttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11030&REPLY_ID=107349Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:01:47 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11030 Fixation can be a two edged sword, and it can even be "weird". A few years back we were in a convoy of ex-military equipment going through Isabel pass in Alaska. A whiteout developed and all you could do was follow the lights of the vehicle in front of you. We could only do about 10 miles per hour at best and would occasionally bump the vehicle in front of us. The lead truck was a deuce and half and it drove off the road. We all followed that truck until he got stuck about 100 feet off the roadway. All six of us were off the road and stuck. The next day when they found us and pulled us back the road with bulldozers we found out that an avalanche had covered the road about three miles from where we were. Who knows, had we stayed on the road we might have been hit by it. Must say though that seeing those trucks way out in the tundra and so far from the road like that sure was a strange sight when the weather was clear the next day.

]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - VA. Crash and ReportAxiom2000http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11026&REPLY_ID=107302Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:09:57 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11026 Galileo
Again believe me there was no intent on my part to infer any fault with the pilots involved in that tragedy. In fact a very very close fried of mine was stationed at Nellis as an instructor at the Fighter Weapons School at that time. He was close with the Thunder bird pilots and I remember vividly the impact this crash had on the USAF community.

I think, this crash speaks highly of the dedication, training and the trust these pilots placed in their lead. I guess the irony is if that had not been doing what they were so well trained to do and so dedicated to that mission they would have escaped.


]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - NHTSA Reportoneotherriderhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11028Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:01:27 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11028
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811149.PDF]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - NASCAR Driver fails to yield right of wayAKRefugeehttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11013&REPLY_ID=107137Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:44:32 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11013 Sadly this is not his first "incident" that "may" have involved alcohol. One night he ran his truck into a ditch and flipped it at O dark thirthy not to far from his home. He left the accident and walked to his house. he didn't answer his door when they came knocking after finding his truck. Lots of suspicion but the police were not able to get to him in time for a viable breathalyzer. Don't give a hoot who he is or what he does for a living if he is a drunk driver he needs to be nailed. Thank God he didn't kill the rider . . . this time.

]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Two Motor Officers Downbluremihttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11001&REPLY_ID=107108Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 27 Oct 2009 07:48:11 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11001 "Turnovec told a judge Friday he suffers from paranoid schizophrenia, a fact not in dispute with Ada County prosecutors, who say Turnovec was discharged from the military over medical issues.

Prosecutors also say that after Turnovec struck the two troopers with his truck Thursday, he jumped out and pleaded with them to shoot him before he was arrested."

I think this may be more of an isolated incident than you think...]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Motorcycle rear-ended - rider killedOlHossCanadahttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10145&REPLY_ID=99795Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:24:12 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10145 This is a terrible, tragic incident. I don`t remember who it was who refused to speak of accidents, and referred to them as incidents, crashes, or wrecks. I think every post on this thread makes a valid point.

There is a post on the safety forum of the vn750.com site where one rider shared his method of dealing with stopping at an intersection. He suggests that just before you stop moving, to turn the bars just enough so that you are pointed between the cars in your lane and the one next to you, left or right. One mirror is pointed straight behind you, so you can see the whole lane without dipping your head back and forth between the two mirrors. It goes without saying that the bike is in first gear and you are holding the clutch lever in. Your head is on a swivel watching all directions, and checking the mirror every few seconds. If someone is coming up behind you too fast, flick your brake light on and off rapidly to get his attention. If that doesn`t work, and he`s going to hit you, pull ahead between the two rows of cars about 4 or 5 cars ahead, and let him crash into the car instead of crushing you in between. If you have to, pull into the dividing median between traffic moving in opposite directions, it is especially important that you do not stop beside the first car, as the driver of the car following you wakes up and runs you over as he follows you onto the median. Pull further ahead.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Almost an accident.Stevebr242http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10956&REPLY_ID=106894Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:05:39 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10956 Yeah, that was my take. At least twice the auto traffic speed. There seems to be an analysis at the end of the video with distances traveled in equivalent times, but it is in Hungarian or a similar language and I can't find anyone to translate.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - The PoochThe Meromorphhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10794&REPLY_ID=106500Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:01:22 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10794 Al, I have been a diabetic for more than 20 years. The general medical understanding of Diabetes is somewhat limited. Most doctors well understand the conventional medical wisdom about Diabetes, which is substantially true for a majority of the people who have Diabetes.
I can definitely say that the conventional medical wisdom is quite wrong for some diabetics (I am one of them). I eventually found an Endocrinologist (and her staff) who understood that variability. I have a great deal of discretion to vary particular dosages of specific medications depending on my judgement of what is going on. I have occasionally met other diabetics with similar issues to mine.

Why I am discussing this is not to say you are like me in this, just that it is possible that even an endocrinologist's assessment that high blood sugar could not have caused your accident to be wrong. For example if my blood sugar gets in excess of 250, what I experience is similar enough to the effects of low blood sugar that I have to check to find out which it is...

I would by no means discount the possibility of extremely high blood sugar + extreme tiredness causing any or all of euphoria, disorientation, or minor hallucinations. And maybe the most dangerous symptom is euphoria, since it can cause one to ignore other warning signs.

I hope this is helpful.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Driver had sun in eyesTecpatl4http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10926&REPLY_ID=106317Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:43:07 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10926
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoyN

The sun is always difficult to deal with. I bought some dark vinyl window tint and cut a 2" strip for the top of my visor. This helps tremendously. I can still see through it when I tilt my head down but really cuts the glare.


I used a 1 inch strip of black gaffers tape on the top edge of my face shield.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - an unfortunate sequence of eventsgymnasthttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10923&REPLY_ID=106300Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:17:27 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10923 Some crashes and injuries are unavoidable, this is an excellent example of one such rare case.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Hobson's Choicebachman1961http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10210&REPLY_ID=106285Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:16:01 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10210
quote:
Originally posted by Night Train


I've learned from experience long ago that it matters not how right someone is, if they lose control of their emotions and engage in a confrontational manner, they will always come out having lost the whole point of the argument they were trying to make and generate nothing but negativity.


+1;
I second the praises of twc for your composure (or at least your great job of acting) in keeping your cool. Often times, just tossing a curse word lowers your status and point to make it nil.

In today's paper the Wisconsin Tourism Federation is changing their name due to "WTF" . See what I mean?

I was nearly run down by a parcel delivery truck years ago as a newer driver in an old VW Bug. He was not paying attention and nearly hit me from behind. At the last moment, he swung to the dirt/gravel shoulder narrowly missing me. I was momentarily outraged then realized if I called it in he might lose his job. That company is know for quite high standards. I figured he just flubbed up and made the best choice at the time, maybe saving me from serious injury. I was quickly over my rage after looking at it that way.

~brian

(edited due to sloppy keystrokes)]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Road rage "incident"SloppyJalopyhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10796&REPLY_ID=106187Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:10:10 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10796
quote:
Originally posted by Starider113


I was thinking that after the authorities get done with Gatewood, Neilson can get a civil lawsuit rolling and he'll own that idiot's butt for life...


Yeah, does anyone else think Gatewood got off pretty easy for what sounds a lot like attempted murder?]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Never clean the chain with the bike in gearHouse_of_Dexterhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10888&REPLY_ID=106166Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:25:39 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10888
quote:
Originally posted by scottrnelson

quote:
Originally posted by House_of_Dexter

Not only should the engine be off...

But the key needs to be in the OFF position or the kill switch on...or better yet...both...
Isn't that a bit extreme?

If the bike is in neutral and the key is in my pocket, it's not going to start regardless of what I've done with the kill switch. Being off and in neutral should be more than enough.
If it's in neutral...but in another forum...had people start the bike up by spinning the tire with the key in the ignition...and in gear...So either will stop it from kicking on...In Neutral, Key in Off, or Kill Switch on...]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Keep a proper following distance on group rides - 26 motorcycles crash!gdickelmanhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10877&REPLY_ID=105908Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Mon, 21 Sep 2009 07:26:48 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10877
quote:
Originally posted by Indiana Randy

Here is a video of Brother Speed gang riding in formation;

http://www.brotherspeedmcoregon.com...speed-videos

Side by side, less than one half second between bikes. [:u]


At best, the formation is inconsistent (in all of the videos). The linked example shows side-by-side up and tight up front, but the formation disintegrates into long gaps, some properly staggered, others not.

In the group ride training I received, discipline around keeping the formation proper and safe in terms of position, distance, responsibilities of the head and tail positions, etc., were emphasized.

Still, we know that things unravel quickly, and the chain reaction here is terrible and unfortunate.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Be Careful in Choosing Your Riding Partnersgymnasthttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10878&REPLY_ID=105865Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sun, 20 Sep 2009 10:21:32 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10878 Had you spent an extra five minutes doing a Google search you would not only have a pretty good idea of the general composition of the group involved in the crash but have had the opportunity to view some photos and videos of the groups riding style. Since this group was founded in 1969 in Boise Idaho it has had a "checkered history" including members who have established world speed records at the Bonneville Salt Flats and other members who became rather well known to the local law enforcement agencies and guard staff at the local and state "custodial institutions".




See www.whiteprisongangs.blogspo...cle-club.html and be wise in choosing the people with whom you ride.


It is rumored that an old man driving a beat up pickup truck with California plates and accompanied by an ape was seen leaving the scene of the crash.[:D]]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Rider "Cut Off" in NJ...greywolfhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10801&REPLY_ID=105752Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:50:31 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10801 It's like downshifting in an emergency braking situation. Both would be nice to do if there was time but neither should be allowed to get in the way of accomplishing the task at hand first.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - speed analysis from motorcycle crashTC709http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10857&REPLY_ID=105690Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:16:25 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10857
quote:
Originally posted by The Meromorph

Look at the bottom section of the forums here. You will find several useful items under "Models".
You may also want to contact James R. Davis (the owner of this site) via PM.


Thanks for your help, I will look there. Mr. Davis contacted me already about my post

have a great day]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Two visiting riders, seperate single vehicle crashesgymnasthttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10860Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:50:09 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10860
In the case of the crash near banks, there have been several fatal crashes in this immediate area (single as well as multiple vehicle) in recent months, and this scenic 2 lane roadway is totally unforgiving of errors as their are no shoulders, a rock wall on one side and a class five rapids on the other. Blind 35MPH curves are the rule for about a 50 mile stretch on this section of Idaho 55.

The rider who died as a result of failure to negotiate the the exit off ramp from Interstate 84 immediately East of the Snake river (the border between Idaho and Oregon) is suspected of having consumed alcohol prior to the crash. The article gives no indication of whether either of the riders was accompanied by others or riding alone.

Link www.idahostatesman.com/newsu...y/900171.html

And 2 more found dead Monday in another crash reported this morning

Link www.idahostatesman.com/newsu...y/900500.html

Four motorcyclists killed within 24 hours, all apparently due to rider error related to control of speed, path and position in relation to the alignment of the road.

]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Terrible, terrible crashgymnasthttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10836&REPLY_ID=105538Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:02:15 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10836 The driver of the car, Zachary Santoro, has a prior charge for DUI pending (trial set for Nov 1) as well as several citations for driving without a license. It is doubtful that Mr Santaro had insurance that was in effect at the time of the crash.

Mr Santaro has been charged with Felony Vehicular Manslaughter with Gross Negligence which, upon conviction, carries a prison term of up to ten years. There appears to be little sympathy in the community for Mr Santaro and an active rider community in the surrounding area will be following this case closely. No mention has yet been made in the matter of charges to the three companions who were in the vehicle with Mr Santaro (They may have been minors?) however there ARE TV news reports indicating that "police recovered items possibly dropped by them as they fled the scene on foot"

Update.

A local news source has reported that the charges filed against Mr Santaro will be upgraded if lab tests show alcohol or drugs in were in Mr Santaro at the time of the crash. This would seem to indicate that a potential sentence of far more than ten years is a possibility for the driver.

The American Motorcyclist Association has been notified of this particularly egregious crash and invited to help assure that prosecution efforts are carried out to the fullest extent of the law. At this time, the AMAs response to the written request is unknown.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Rider down on the DragonJames R. Davishttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10804&REPLY_ID=105359Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:36:40 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10804 Though I know a lot of Harley riders who have done the Draggon, I wonder about the wisdom of renting one to ride that road - especially if you are not used to Harleys.

I say that because the Harley-Davidson bike's I've seen and ridden all have very low maximum lean angles before dragging something hard. One model comes straight from the factory with a maximum lean angle of only about 26 degrees. A sport bike that can't lean 45 degrees is a rare exception and even most touring bikes can handle about 40 degrees.

If you are unfamiliar with a Harley and take one on the Draggon, you are asking for trouble.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Restricted Visibility/Braking Error Fatalitygalileohttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10781&REPLY_ID=105068Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:03:41 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10781
quote:
Originally posted by The Meromorph

Let me give credit where it is due.
I got the term 'Undramatic Braking' from Nigel A, who recently published a magazine article on the subject (among others) in England. [:)]


I've been using the concept almost since I started riding. The concept of accelerating when it's safe was new to me.

One I have that I learned in the last year is "Space ahead of me brings space around me." It is closely related to "Go slower, you will get there faster."]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Two killed by left-turnerbluremihttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10782&REPLY_ID=105033Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:01:23 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10782 Difficult to guess if the passenger hit anything en route to the concrete on the other side of the car, but it's a reasonable assumption that she might have survived if she had been wearing a full-face helmet and armored gear.

I'm just imagining the dynamics of a head-on collision and what the forces would do to the flight path of a passenger: I'm guessing that since the front end tucks down, bringing the rear up, the passenger would be launched upwards and forwards and would hit the ground at the bottom of a wide parabolic arc. Without hitting anything stationary the chance of survival seems better than the driver's, but I could be wrong.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Motorcyclist dies in west Harris parking lot crashdogdoc427http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10767&REPLY_ID=104922Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:59:42 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10767 Prevention of this incident may have been as simple as squeezing both levers.

Dogdoc427]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Major HD dealership owner dies in crashSilver Girlhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10664&REPLY_ID=104838Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:03:39 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10664 I have never heard of signalling to indicate to another driver/rider to pass. In Canada signalling means you're going to turn! We just had a similar incident on another forum where a rider passed a farm tractor pulling a wagon that turned left in front of her. He did not signal that he was doing so. Here in farm country the understanding is that the farmers own the backroads and they will wave you ahead if they want you to pass. Until they do that, I stay behind them no matter how painfully slow the ride.

Mr. Rossmeyer's fatality was tragic but also a reminder not to become complacent when you're an experienced rider. I still wonder if he would have survived if he'd been wearing a helmet. I am a strong believer in ATGATT and IMHO a "role model" such as Mr.Rossmeyer should have been wearing a helmet (legislated or not) - simply because helmets DO save lives!]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Analysis and Opinions as to cause.aidanspahttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10754&REPLY_ID=104805Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:23:02 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10754
quote:
Originally posted by gymnast

Waving when he should have been riding.

Exactly. He lost focus on the task at hand (pun intended). If the camera crew hadn't been there he might have made it through this curve and not crashed until later in his trip.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Rider hits hose on freeway, crashes, gear protects himTecpatl4http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10753&REPLY_ID=104798Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:52:35 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10753 The hose appears to be flexible, so it wouldn't be a problem unless you hit the metal end. In the forum he said that's what he hit, so it brings to mind two issues from a safety perspective.

Following to closely. If he had allowed for a 2 second gap he would have had time for....

Swerving. This is why they teach it in BRC.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Another Distracted DriverDDfromMNhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10741&REPLY_ID=104659Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:22:46 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10741 Gosh it would be nice if everybody would just take driving, or riding a bit more seriously.
DD]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - A slap on the wrist.Nieborhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10697&REPLY_ID=104343Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:25:57 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10697
quote:
Originally posted by Night Train
They seem content to get a misdemeanour conviction simply to clear the case load.

Indeed! But you left out the trend toward "production enforcement", where fines are doubled and points suspended. One could easily argue it has become a simple money game. I see districts, realizing the potential of stepped up enforcement have ramped up their efforts, adding officers and cars. Indeed, they are filling more patrol positions than they picked up from the feds in the interest of national security.

I wonder if they properly considered the effect on the court system? [}:)]

So, it is in my opinion, sadly, that your statement is correct, but the basis is incorrect. A 4 MPH school zone violation, with fines doubled is now $340 in this area. I believe the money game will indeed help encourage compliance. In response one would expect enforcement to migrate to areas with less compliance. With new laws in place, I think we are about to see quite a rash of DUI arrests. Some will applaud the effort, others will consider it prohibition. My position, to coin an old phrase is: "We made the bed, now we get to sleep in it". I really hope getting back on track doesn't turn into an all-out civil war.
]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Start Seeing Trailers?radan2http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10698&REPLY_ID=104335Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:53:09 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10698 A phenomenon I have noticed is the failure of many drivers to wait for a large enough gap in traffic before making a left turn. I am not just referring to a large enough gap to complete the turn without forcing the oncoming traffic to brake, but even a gap so small that in some cases, only very forceful emergency braking by oncoming vehicles can prevent an accident.

As a result, I am very careful when approaching a vehicle of any kind flashing a left-turn signal, or even one stopped at the edge of the lane.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - A legend dies in motorcycle crash.SkootchNChttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10659&REPLY_ID=104199Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:34:31 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10659
quote:
Originally posted by SkootchNC



Whether the overtaking group was in the "right" or not, is up to the local court system, but as for me..... I'd just as soon wait until AFTER the traffic made it's turn.


I'd rather be late, in arriving, that "dead right". Whether overtaking vehicles have the right of way, or not.... we each are in control of our motorcycles, and we alone are responsible for the outcome.

If I err, I perfer to err on the side of caution]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Expect the UnexpectedNight Trainhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10652&REPLY_ID=103911Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sat, 01 Aug 2009 02:32:03 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10652 Sam, first of all welcome to the site. I was remiss in not doing so earlier and for that I apologize. In respect to your question relating to the amount of information required to discuss an accident, I would suggest as much information as is possible. The photos that you provided in your follow up post clarify what you were saying while the initial posted article did not.

When I read about motorcycle accidents, especially those that involve other vehicles, I try to put myself in the position of the motorcyclist and analyze what they, or I, could have done to have a different outcome. I'm not particularly interested in the fact that the car driver was at fault. We all encounter drivers making illegal and bonehead moves that place us in danger on a regular basis. It is what we can learn from the accidents of others that can help us avoid a similar fate that is primarily the basis of discussion from the posted Accidents in this forum.

You are quite right in your assessment that we need to expect the unexpected, and the solitary thing in this particular instance that causes me concern, is the fact that the motorcycle appears to have struck the right rear door of the offending vehicle. Without information relating to how quickly the vehicle executed it's left turn and the speed of the motorcycle, as well as other possible contributing factors, I am left to question whether the rider of the bike was operating under any expectations of the unexpected. Had he been riding in a more defensive manner, perhaps he may have noticed the left turner sooner.

To me, the indicators of a sudden and unavoidable accident would have been the car striking the motorcyle or the motorcycle striking the front side portion of the right front fender of the car. The farther back on the car the point of impact, the more time the bike should have had to recognize the peril and take evasive action. There is no information relating to skid marks, etc. that could allow one to draw a firm conclusion that would suggest the motorcycle had the last clear chance to avoid the accident.

The limited information posted thus far on this particular accident, serves to drive home the reminder that these type of hazards are before us on a regular basis and we need to acknowledge that and ride with the expectations that these situations can and will occur.

There is insufficient information in which to disect the facts and try to make a determination of what exactly the motorcyclist could have done that could have altered his fate.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Riding Side by Side is Just Plain Stupidredsledhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10622&REPLY_ID=103876Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:28:22 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10622
quote:
Originally posted by DDfromMN

Bluremi,
I guess it just goes to show you that terms have different meanings in different parts of the country. I have edited the original title of this thread so as not to confuse.
The concept of sharing a lane with a car is non-existent here in MN, as is lane splitting.


Lane splitting/sharing is, I believe, equivalent to "whitelining" - general concept being that you ride between two columns of vehicles that are both going the same direction. Technically you should not be on the white line, you should be 'sharing' one lane or the other with the vehicle in it. It is illegal in 49 states. It is legal here in California.

quote:

Also, you could have the worlds best and worlds 2nd best at riding "side by side," with unbelievable "lane track discipline," and you would still be giving up your space cushion and reducing your options in dealing with other hazards of the road.


California motor officers do it here routinely. I'm not quite sure what the logic is for them, but I would suspect they have a very good reason for it. (BTW, where in the OP's linked article did it say they were riding deuce? Maybe one was attempting to pass the other?).

As for lane splitting/sharing, it admittedly does look pretty crazy from a car's perspective. But it, like most everything else we do on two wheels, can be done safely (not recommended for new riders, however).]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Drunk not responsible for Motorcyclist's deathgymnasthttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10657&REPLY_ID=103826Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:45:40 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10657 Interesting case, as there were two separate crashes. The first a "clear" case of DUI, the second, possibly, a case of too fast for conditions and a situation, in any case where the motorcyclist struck a car where he did not expect a car to normally be stopped for whatever reason. The lack of a finding of causality for a criminal prosecution does not mean that there is not grounds for a civil case by members, if any, of the family of the motorcyclist. The news story gives insufficient detail to know if there would be a "good" civil case if the driver was the defendant.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Deer in Coloradoaidanspahttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10586&REPLY_ID=103384Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:58:36 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10586 Welcome to the site, jrxod! I'm sorry to hear of your crash but hope you heal well & quickly.

There is a lot to digest from the crash story. Gear? C'mon. Hopefully, the physical pain and loss of your bike will lead to make a firm decision to always wear it, regardless of the weather. Because you just never know what might be on the other side of the hill, do you?

Speaking of the hill, would you have approached the crest of the hill any differently if there had been "Deer Crossing" signs with flashing lights as you neared it? Or, if you had passed a deer carcass on the shoulder? Would you have approached the crest expecting to see deer, and adjusted your speed so you could stop in time to not hit them? Or, at the very least, prepared for a properly executed quick stop without locking up?

It is easy, as a Monday morning quarterback, to suggest that we need to ride in areas known to have deer as if there are deer around each curve and over each hill. But, the fact is we need to plan for the unexpected and ride appropriately, as we are the only ones who can do something about our own safety.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - unexpected objectkenneth84http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10596Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:32:23 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10596 http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/200...3BP9VyADW7oF

I guess this is a new one to look out for but still reminds us to pay attention. Expect the unexpected. Ride safe out there and wear your gear.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Two motorcyclist killed in head on crash!bluremihttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10581&REPLY_ID=103160Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:29:01 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10581 It seems like not wearing a helmet is a pretty strong indicator of how risk-averse you are as a rider. Although I try to avoid making unfounded judgments, I wasn't surprised that the rider responsible for the accident was the one without a helmet.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Another lane splitter deathEH2Zeehttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10413&REPLY_ID=102923Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:10:18 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10413
quote:
Originally posted by scottrnelson

...That section of road is extremely dangerous, especially to motorcycles, and I don't like going through there even in light traffic when I have the whole lane to myself. Many riders around here consider it suicidal to split lanes there....


Alas, California's road maintenance policies are also quite "amusing" in that lanes are frequently reconfigured by merely re-striping. This means that the seams of the physical concrete lanes suddenly appear in the middle of your path. Having the whole lane to myself (rather than splitting) to negotiate these physical lanes is really appealing to me. But them, I'm a chicken. [:x)]]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Immature behavior leads to deathNight Trainhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10547&REPLY_ID=102875Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:59:00 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10547 The rider in the news article certainly made the separation between reckless riders and safe, lawful riders in a most permanent manner.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Deer are a never ending threat!dpetrickhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10536&REPLY_ID=102790Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:59:02 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10536 Sad to read this, it is never good to hear of a fatality.
Dawn and dusk are two of the worst times, around here, for deer to be moving across roads. It is something we have to be aware all the time. I have deer in my yard, even the driveway. I try not to ride around dawn or dust if I can avoid it because of the deer.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Pile-up in Wiscoscottrnelsonhttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10519&REPLY_ID=102677Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:22:26 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10519 I consider this a strong reason to insist on proper following distances. That's much more likely the cause of the pile up than the size of the group. Movies like Wild Hogs haven't helped, since that shows the riders staying much to close together.]]>Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS - Lots of crashes in Ohiovivid dadashttp://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=10445&REPLY_ID=102667Motorcycle Accident Reports - WITH COMMENTS Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:25:27 -0500http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10445 I drove by the Newark accident a few minutes after it happened, the riders were still down, rider was west bound in Newark proper, exiting SR 16 while entering southbound SR 79 near White Field. He was on a combination exit/entrance ramp, both highways are controlled access. The bike and riders were down in the grass on the outside of the corner, what would be a fast left turn, so he went off wide whatever happened.

This is one of the motorcycle - deer incidents you mentioned. The local buzz is that the impact knocked him off the back of the bike, his helmet came off on impact with road. He is recovering, is a tough guy who has previously recovered from major heart issues, and will ride again.

http://www.daily-jeff.com/news/article/4616733


Don't know what to make of this.....
http://www.daily-jeff.com/news/article/4621513]]>