| Member |
 Discussion Topic  |
|
|
ananga73
 Junior Member
28 Posts
Windsor Mill, MD
USA
Suzuki
M90
|
 Posted - 10/22/2009 : 7:56 PM
|
Folks,
How many hours of PLP a month do you suggest is "enough"? I ask because surely one cannot spend all ones time doing PLP. Assuming one "masters" the spectrum of PLP exercises, what percentage of possible accidents has one eliminated considering the are accident factors out of ones control? 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%? Is there any data to make inferences from?
If mastering PLP is only going to eliminate a possible 5% of accidents for a rider, I would like to cap my hours of practice to a reasonable limit because after all I gotta ride 
Regards,
|
|
|
gymnast
Moderator
2211 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
|
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 8:34 PM
|
| How many times a month/year do you ride? How many months a year do you ride? Do you "lay up" for the winter? How many different bikes do you ride each month/year? How often do you carry a passenger? How often do you practice with a passenger? How many miles did do you ride last year? Each of the preceding 5 years? How many years have you been riding? Where did you get that 5% figure? When is the last time you crashed? Have you ever been injured? What do you think are your greatest strengths as a rider? What are you weakest skill areas as a rider? |
 |
|
|
Axiom2000
Moderator
527 Posts
[Mentor]
Georgetown, Delaware
USA
BMW
R1200RT/ R1200C
|
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 3:47 AM
|
Ananga73
There is no research or data anywhere that draws a correlation between differing amounts of PLP and accident reduction odds or percentages. There is no doubt in my mind that PLP will improve your motorcycle riding skills. How much PLP do you need, before that questioned could be answered I would have some of the same questions asked by Gymnast. The newer and less skilled you are the more you need, I find good PLP sessions to be both mentally and physically taxing and therefore try to limit sessions to perhaps 20-30 minutes one or two days a week. Some days it comes easy and some days not so. I happen to enjoy PLP while some find it boring. The skills you have and may acquire are perishable and need to be kept honed, I get more braking practice, and slow speed tight turns done in 30 minutes of PLP than I would see in a month of normal riding. I would guess the biggest benefit of PLP in crash reduction chances would be in developing superior braking skills so if your PLP time is limited concentrate on braking practice. Practice your braking concentrating on stopping in shorter and shorter distances while in complete balance and control of your motorcycle. I tend to think when faced with a life or death situation and untrained, unpracticed rider will panic and the instinct to stop as fast as possible will more than likely result in a full force rear brake stomp and front brake grab. With the end result not being good at all. So how much practice do you need, I think only you can answer that. If you have not done so, read through the Safety Tips area of this site. There is much there that will not only help you become a better rider but give you good ideas for effective PLP. Good luck.
Thanks
Jerry |
Edited by - Axiom2000 on 10/23/2009 3:53 AM |
|
|
|
ananga73
Junior Member
28 Posts
Windsor Mill, MD
USA
Suzuki
M90
|
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 5:54 AM
|
Thanks for your responses. Axiom, I was also thinking about half an hour each day over the weekend.
In reply to Gymnasts questions:
I ride 3 times a week for 9 months of the year [March-Nov]
I lay up for the winter. I only ride one bike year round. I never carry a passenger. I never practice with a passenger. I ride about 4000 miles a year. I've only been riding for a year.
I did not get the 5% figure from any literature, I am conjecturing and did not state is as fact. I have never crashed, although I have laid the bike down twice in a parking lot when I forgot to put up the stand. I have never been injured.
My greatest strength I guess will be adherence to ATGATT principles and general level "headedness" noting that I have not ridden enough to consider myself expert in any area.
My weakest skill is likely cornering/making sharp turns which I am working on. Like I said earlier, I am just a beginner so I have no complete mastery of any one skill.
Regards,
|
|
|
|
rayg50
Senior Member
497 Posts
[Mentor]
NYC, NY
USA
Honda
Shadow Spirit 750DC
Peer Review:
1
|
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 6:09 AM
|
ananga73, welcome.
I use PLP, in part, to help me decide if I should ride that day. Some days I have "it" some days I don't.
I do PLP before my rides the way any sports enthusiast warms up before the actual event. I do not look at the clock but rather the progress I feel I am making. There is a quick routine of moves I do when I get there and whichever one(s) do not feel right that day I practice until I feel I have made progress. So if a U turn feels wrong, that is what I practice that day. Some PLP sessions have been as short as 5 minutes others have been much more then 30.
No matter which ones I practice I end my session with scanning, friction zone, smooth quick acceleration, and quick stops. I can avoid tight right turns on a ride, the only way I can avoid these is to go home and find something else to do.
I demand the contents of my helmet to eliminate 100% of the possible accidents on any given day. It needs the help of my physical performance. If either falls short of my expectations before or during a ride I go home. I would rather skip a day then be forced to skip a few months.
Glad you are participating. Once more, welcome.
Edited to correct grammer. I still am learning to wrote right. |
Edited by - rayg50 on 10/23/2009 6:16 AM |
|
|
|
bluremi
Junior Member
44 Posts
Brooklyn, NY
USA
Kawasaki
2006 500R
|
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 7:12 AM
|
I do PLP to work on skills I know I need to develop.
I did a lot of it when I first got my bike in March, then did none at all until August when I noticed my u-turns were very wobbly. Went to the lot and practiced u-turns until they were effortless again.
While you're out there, though, emergency braking is the one thing you cannot over-practice. |
|
|
|
SkootchNC
Senior Member
327 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
|
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 7:31 AM
|
Ananga73
Welcome.
The PLP, is intended to foster a skill set. The ability to control our motorcycles in all conditions. Obviously, the skills needed to recognize, and avoid hazards, will not be learned, in a big, open parking lot. But the skills you will deploy, to avoid those risks will. Swerves, figure eights,cone weaves, are things you may rarely use on the open road, but may save your bacon once in your riding career.
Most motorcycle accidents are caused by the rider. Speed, Alcohol, and failure to negotiate a curve are the leading causes of wrecks. PLP will help you handle curves.
Rather than set a goal of "hours per month" I's suggest set a goal, of YOUR ease, during the PLP.
I'm lucky to live in a warmish climate, I can (and do) ride 12 months a year. I've averaged well over 20,000 miles for the past several years. I head out to the local high school at least once a month and spend a few hours doing my PLP. Frankly there are days, when I can't do a U-turn, without using a lot of space.... Age, and various injuries, conspire against me (they are not motorcycle related injuries). If I don't feel "good" doing PLP, I'm not likely to ride well, either, and I return home.
There is no such thing as "enough" as far as a general statement. It's a matter of how YOU feel your skills are progressing. You might decide one day, that you've had enough PLP, only to discover, within a short time, that you still need more time.
In answer to Gymnasts query....(in an attempt to qualify MY statements)
1) 15-31 days per month (weather dependant)
2) 12 months per year
3) perhaps as much as 7-10 days per year... but that's only happened twice
4) Very rarely, But when I do, it's precious cargo... a star for "Ride for Kids" my Daughter, my grandchildren
5) so, yes I do with a sack of concrete or two
6) 19,611 in 2008(I looked up the records) 17,171 so far in 2009
7) From 4/12/02 to 12/27/07 138,000 miles
8) Edge trap in a dark covered bridge in northern VA. I followed another bike, I went off the raised beam, bike threw my butt. No damage except to my ego
9) Many times, but not while operating a motor vehicle
10)I am an avid student, and am open to learning
11) I do not commit enough of my time to PLP, skills are perishable if I don't keep them up, I lose them
|
|
|
|
gymnast
Moderator
2211 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
|
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 10:24 AM
|
Ananga, Now that some context has been established, I would like to share my opinions as to the quantity and quality of PLP that is needed to improve skills. Quantity in hours is not nearly as important as frequency in minutes. Five or ten minutes at the start of a ride every time you ride (or if you are a commuter leaving for work in the dark maybe 3 short sessions a week at other times at your leisure). The benefit of short frequent practice sessions is that frequent distributed practice is the best way to learn, improve, and maintain psychomotor skills. Making the appropriate control response subcortically ("automatically") is a by-product of practice. Frequent PLP sessions of longer duration are particularly important at the start of each riding season. Don't forget to inspect your bike at the start of each practice and make any needed adjustments (and that time doesn't count as practice time).
The "quality" of ones PLP is equally important. As pointed out above, it is particularly important to work on the weakest parts of ones skill-set. The types of skill drills that one does in a basic course are not all there is in terms of skill development exercises, merely a minimum baseline. Drills such as figure eights where the rider transitions back and forth between countersteering and direct steering speeds, braking drills using various pre-planned deceleration and acceleration rates transition while transition into curves are good drills. Perhaps the most beneficial type of PLP is when sharing the experience with other riders who are highly experienced and willing to share their tips and knowledge.
Off road riding is another way of improving your skill sets, especially if you practice using your street bike. If one is riding a full dress touring bike,careful practice maneuvering on short stretches of gravel or paved roads is appropriate.
In all cases, practice for the type of conditions you expect or may be forced by circumstances to ride in including heat, cold and rain. |
|
|
|
Born1928
New Member
17 Posts
Bastrop, TX
USA
Honda
1989 GB500
|
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 1:11 PM
|
| In over 50 years of intensive motorcyling and scooter riding experience I never gave PLP a lot of consideration. My thoughts were more directed to effective countersteering and braking for collision avoidance. Anyone who has spent time riding in the mountains of Colorado has had to encounter tight switchbacks that do require a fair amount of slow speed turning skill to negotiate, so as far as I was personally concerned I was a proficient rider. But recently having acquired a 2007 Honda Silver Wing scooter and also newly tuned into the pages of this site, I became interested in PLP. I immediately found out that making tight slow speed turns on this scooter absent a clutch and independent rear brake was much more of a challenge than performing the same turns on my Honda GB500. But even on the GB500 I found out I was woefully lacking in skill. Watching Gerson on YouTube performing Fig 8s on his Burgman scooter made me realize just how proficient I really am not. So now I try to devote time each week for PLP. I can see it is paying off in slow but visible progress. Norb |
|
|
|
dogfish
Junior Member
62 Posts
Ashburn, VA
USA
(None)
|
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 7:49 AM
|
Good topic.
ananga73, if you've developed awareness of what you're doing, you should also be able to determine when you're comfortable doing PLP to the point where you've hit diminishing returns.
At least once a week I try to get out there, but normally more like 2x. Nothing long, maybe 20 minutes in the lot of so to do some really tight U-turns, weave/swerve practice and emergency stops. I find that frequent, short sessions work better than longer less frequent sessions.
Another thing I've found is that my winter gear is very stiff. Making tight turns at low speed has a different feel, gloves have a different feel, etc. So practice in all the configurations of gear you own.
|
|
|
|
vivid dadas
Standard Member
196 Posts
Columbus, OH
USA
Suzuki
V-Strom 650DL
|
|
|
FunToRide
Starting Member
3 Posts
Baltimore, MD
USA
Honda
Shadow
|
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 2:39 AM
|
| If I may factor in the quality of PLPs in terms of having somebody looking with a critical eye to whatever one is practicing. I think the most common problematic skill to new riders is doing tight Uturns. Don't you believe that having somebody watching (coaching) you ultimately lessen the time it takes to grasp "a skill" |
|
|
|
Axiom2000
Moderator
527 Posts
[Mentor]
Georgetown, Delaware
USA
BMW
R1200RT/ R1200C
Peer Review:
1
|
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 3:25 AM
|
quote:
If I may factor in the quality of PLPs in terms of having somebody looking with a critical eye to whatever one is practicing. I think the most common problematic skill to new riders is doing tight Uturns. Don't you believe that having somebody watching (coaching) you ultimately lessen the time it takes to grasp "a skill"
Having a willing, patient mentor who has experience in coaching a new rider in PLP and street riding would be ideal. Developing the skills to ride a motorcycle are not unlike learning any other skill in that regard. Having a coach or guide to encourage, offer suggestions in a positive way and immediately correct serious errors would certainly help flatten the learning curve.
Come to think of it, it would be great if there were a nationwide network of motorcycle riding mentors. |
|
|
|
Niebor
Advanced Member
2793 Posts
[Mentor]
Highlands Ranch, Colorado
USA
Harley-Davidson
03' Superglide
|
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 10:16 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Axiom2000
Come to think of it, it would be great if there were a nationwide network of motorcycle riding mentors.
There is, you see it right below your name. You know, the 1%ers. 
Two or three of us that actually consider PLP fun get together for practice say no less than once a month. On the days I'm just buzzin' around town, I like to start out with a detour by my local high school MSF course. Some days are more "on" than others. I can not recall having abandoned a day for feeling "off". I have however not left the house on days I simply didn't feel up to it. Today could be loosely fit into that category.
Last Sunday, we terminated our ride early due to deteriorating weather. Indeed, the ride home proved one of those most of us would rather skip. We are in the thawing stage after a pretty good blast of snow mid-week. My conclusion was that West, toward the mountains was out due to melting snow/ice. East, toward the prairie would likely see blowing snow crossing our routes. As it turned out the overnight low was much warmer than anticipated and it would have been an excellent day to ride the prairie. But then... I was unsuccessful in finding my garden hose yesterday, (buried in snow), and the bike is still a wreck from last weekend. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it. |
|
|
|
ananga73
Junior Member
28 Posts
Windsor Mill, MD
USA
Suzuki
M90
|
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 3:17 PM
|
I just got back from riding. Actually I was planning to go for an hours ride but after starting my pre-ride PLP, I "enjoyed" it so much I ended up not going for the ride and doing about thirty minutes of PLP.
I have a relatively heavy bike and it is rewarding to notice improvements in maneuvering the beast in tight spaces at low speeds.
|
|
|
| |
Discussion Topic |
|
|
|
|
Most Recent Posts
|
Activity History
|
Safety Tips
PLP and diminishing returns