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Multi-Bike
 New Member
24 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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 Posted - 10/30/2009 : 4:47 PM
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Hey yall, I am new to the site and must say it looks very informative. It seems like there is alot of knowledge on here and I hope I can find some knowledge that can help with my problem. Working on a 1982 Yamaha Maxim xj750. While riding, it just dies. It may not even start or it may run for 100 miles and then die. When it dies it just shuts off, all lights still on, it turns over fine, it may fire right back up or it may not. Im leaning towards the rectifier and wanted to get some more input. Does anyone know if you can test a rectifier or not and if so how. Any ideas on what the problem may be? Thanks in advance, Sean
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
4748 Posts
[Mentor]
Pleasanton, CA
USA
Ducati
ST2, 888, + XR650L
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Posted - 10/30/2009 : 4:54 PM
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If I remember correctly, the rectifier takes the voltage generated by the alternator and sends it through the voltage regulator to the battery. If it were bad, I would expect the battery to slowly die, with no chance of immediately restarting the bike. It definitely wouldn't have lights still on at full brightness and wouldn't turn over just fine.
My suggestion would be to go through every electrical connection on the bike and make sure it's clean and making a good connection. Use some dielectric grease on the connections to help them continue to make good contact. If you want to know exactly which one was the problem it might be difficult, but cleaning up all of the connections should have a good chance of fixing the one causing your problem.
I should do this with each of my bikes as well, but never seem to get around to it. |
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Multi-Bike
New Member
24 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 10/30/2009 : 5:00 PM
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| Thanks Scott, You are right about all connections and I should check that before replacing any parts its just weird how this problem seems to just happen while going down the road or sitting still, or even starting it for the first time for the day it may not even crank then but your right I guess it could be just a connection. It left the owner stranded yesterday and after sitting all day when he went to get it, it fired right up. So its not a hot or cold issue. Still searching...I will check connections in the mean time. Thanks again. |
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Deseret Rider
Advanced Member
721 Posts
[Mentor]
Helper, Utah
USA
BMW
R1100RT
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Posted - 10/30/2009 : 9:29 PM
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Then again, it might pay you to check the fuel filter before you get too far into the electrics
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Multi-Bike
New Member
24 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 10/30/2009 : 10:33 PM
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| I know its not the filter or petcock, I dont even think its fuel related. Whatever the problem is though seems to be getting worse. It went from not doing it to doing it just about everyday. Sometimes its a matter of it cutting off and starting right back up and like yesterday it wouldnt start within 15 minutes so he left it sitting while he was at work and later it started right up. I will be checking all wiring, plugs, connections, etc. first thing in the morning just to see. Anymore ideas ?? |
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Night Train
Moderator
942 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
Softail and Touring
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Posted - 10/31/2009 : 5:33 AM
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| The bike being an 82 could have a number of issues to address. Wiring is definitely at the top of the list along with vacuum hoses and the carb rubbers between the air box and the carbs. These usually dry out and crack causing air and vacuum leaks that can play havoc on the running of the bike. |
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Multi-Bike
New Member
24 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 10/31/2009 : 8:08 AM
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| It seems to me like if it were someting like vacuum or the boots it would act up all the time but when its running its running top notch until all of a sudden it dies like hitting the kill switch. |
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rayg50
Senior Member
497 Posts
[Mentor]
NYC, NY
USA
Honda
Shadow Spirit 750DC
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Posted - 10/31/2009 : 8:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Multi-Bike
... like hitting the kill switch.
Is there a way to check the kill switch and the one on the stand (if it has one there)?
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Multi-Bike
New Member
24 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 10/31/2009 : 7:57 PM
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| The kill switch is already bypassed. You turn the bike on and off with the key and it also doesnt have a kickstand switch. |
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Night Train
Moderator
942 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
Softail and Touring
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Posted - 11/01/2009 : 5:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Multi-Bike
It seems to me like if it were someting like vacuum or the boots it would act up all the time but when its running its running top notch until all of a sudden it dies like hitting the kill switch.
Your are right especially if the hose is disconnected or the boots or hose have been cracked all the way through. However, some vacuum lines can get soft and will collapse while the bike is in operation or a vacuum line could be kinked allowing the bike to run for a while and then quit. You've got an older bike that runs fine until it decides to shut off. It sounds more like wiring but in response to your question of what else it could be I offered these possibilities as well.
You mention the kill switch has been bypassed. Have you checked where the wires were cut and whether the ends have come bare or not?
Another possiblity is a worn ignition. In cases of a worn ignition, wind pressure, vibration, etc can move the key just enough to shut off the bike but not move the key to the off position.
Keep us posted on your progress. |
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Niebor
Advanced Member
2793 Posts
[Mentor]
Highlands Ranch, Colorado
USA
Harley-Davidson
03' Superglide
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Posted - 11/01/2009 : 7:42 AM
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I saw your query on FixYa . com. Doesn't look like your having much luck there either.
This is a rather subjective guess, but I'm going with the pickup coil. Pop the cover off and make sure there is no oil, hunks of grease or moisture in there. Make sure the wires pass from the case to the harness without any nicks or cuts.
I couldn't find a model specific electrical diagram, but here is a (rather lengthy link to a) picture of the components involved:
edit: Couldn't make the link work, here.
It reads: h t t p://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:YOBntCwOYwYJ:w w w.portablepowergenerator2.com/1982-yamaha-xj-750-maxim-ignition-pickups-pulse-generator.html+1982+Yamaha+Maxim+xj750+electrical&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
(Remove the spaces between H T T P & w w w) |
Edited by - Niebor on 11/01/2009 8:30 AM |
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SkootchNC
Senior Member
327 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
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Posted - 11/01/2009 : 9:05 AM
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Do you have the shop manual, for your specific year/model? or do you have a general manual such as Clymers or Haynes?
Given you say the bike will crank, but not fire, I TEND to discount the kill switch/kick stand theory, but that doesn't mean there ISN'T a fault there as well. On the Honda 1100 Shadow, there was a common problem much like you describe, and the cause was/is a pinched vent line on the gas tank.
Next time the bike won't start, try opening the gas tank, if the bike will then start, I'd start looking at, and replacing all of the vent tubes.
As your bike is 27 years old, I'd suspect every piece of rubber hose, that hadn't been changed within the past 3 years, and that includes the diaphragms. they MIGHT work fine when cold, but distort when warm, without actually looking at each and every rubber item on the bike, troubleshooting is a wild guess.
Then you have 27 years of use, wearing and tearing on the wires, and every connector.
In answer to your question if you can test a rectifier or not and if so how My manual offers specific tests which might confuse more than enlighten, so I'll refer you to your shop manual. However, a simple check at Electrosport's web site, I did find this tidbit about your year/model bike.
http://www.electrosport.com/technic...et_64050.php note the links for trouble shooting your bike. |
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Niebor
Advanced Member
2793 Posts
[Mentor]
Highlands Ranch, Colorado
USA
Harley-Davidson
03' Superglide
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Posted - 11/01/2009 : 10:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SkootchNC
Next time the bike won't start, try opening the gas tank, if the bike will then start, I'd start looking at, and replacing all of the vent tubes.
+1 on the gas tank vent! It's also a classic for the symptom you describe. If it works, beyond the vent hoses, there is a check valve in the cap. A little rust can make it stick closed. If it's stuck, often you can spray it with a little WD-40 and use a small piece of wire to clear it.
As long as it turns over and the lights are bright, forget about the rectifier. A simple voltage test will tell you if your charging properly. |
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Multi-Bike
New Member
24 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 11/01/2009 : 4:19 PM
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| Wow, I have never gotten such a response to any other question on any other forum as I have on here. I have alot of things to check. I know its not a cold or hot issue cause it may do it after sitting all night and not start first thing in the morning or it might do it after hitting 99 miles on a 100 mile ride, full of gas or low, sunny or rainy. Its just random but it is getting worse. When it started it would shut off and fire right back up but as I said it wouldnt fire back up the other day until it set all day long and them ran like nothing was wrong. I will keep yall posted. By the way the "Batt" light is on in the dash and has been for almost 5000 miles and never have had a problem with drained battery. Does this possibly change things?? Thanks yall |
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Multi-Bike
New Member
24 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 11/01/2009 : 4:34 PM
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| Niebor, I havent posted anything on that Fixya.com but after you mentioned I was looking and this seems like a problem that others are having as well. I did read a few of them but all of yall have already told me all that stuff so I dont need that site...haha. |
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SkootchNC
Senior Member
327 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
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Posted - 11/02/2009 : 9:48 AM
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Do you have a shop manual?
How long have you owned this bike?
Has the tank ever been run completely out?
When was the fuel filter(s) changed?
Fuel lines?, carb cleaned?
A random piece of gunk, could block off fuel supply, causing the bike to shut down.... although, I'd think the bike would shutter and spit, first. You say the bike "just shuts off" |
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
4748 Posts
[Mentor]
Pleasanton, CA
USA
Ducati
ST2, 888, + XR650L
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Posted - 11/02/2009 : 11:11 AM
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Let me add another story here about why I strongly suspect electrical issues.
Way back in the early 80's a friend of mine had a Kawasaki H1 Mach III 500cc two-stroke triple. That was a bike that was often described as scary fast. Not fast by today's standards, but with the poor handling and weak brakes you didn't have to keep the throttle open for long before it started to get scary.
I borrowed that bike for a few weeks and rode it a bit and it would occasionally cut out, but then I could get it going again. Finally, when this friend was moving I volunteered to ride the bike from the old house to the new one. About half-way there it died and I couldn't get it restarted. After pushing it for about half a mile, I decided that my efforts might be of better value trying to diagnose the problem so that I could ride it the rest of the way.
After following quite a few wires around, I found one that had twisted back and forth enough times to break all of the wires inside. If you pushed on it the bike would run but if you pulled it would die. So I stripped off the insulation and made a temporary fix to get it to its destination, then soldered that wire for a better connection. Then I don't think I ever rode it again.
Motorcycles suddenly dying without sputtering first usually mean poor electrical connections. Carburetion and fuel filter issues normally give a bit of warning before the bike dies. |
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Multi-Bike
New Member
24 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 11/02/2009 : 8:02 PM
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| Skoothnc, Its not my bike but I am and have been doing the work on it. I am just baffled with this problem which is the reason I turned to yall...haha. The bike was purchased July 5th of this year, It had been sitting for about 1 1/2 years before. I cleaned carbs, tank (no rust), new filter, fuel line. Once I got it running and road worthy again it was doing fine. The owner and myself ride every Saturday about 150 miles or so. He has put almost 5000 miles on it since the purchase and this problem didnt exist until recently and has been getting worse. It does not spit or sputter at all it just dies and as I said it may fire right back up or may not. It may do it hot or cold. A local bike mechanic said it sounded like the rectifier to him but it seems like he is the only one that thinks that, as I mentioned the "Batt" light has been on since he bought the bike but never has had a dead battery or even dragging while starting. |
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Night Train
Moderator
942 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
Softail and Touring
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Posted - 11/02/2009 : 11:57 PM
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| The "batt" light usually doesn't just relate to the battery, it is a warning device that something is amiss within the charging system. It is possible that the rectifier is getting hot or there could be a wire shorting out as suggested by Scott. |
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SkootchNC
Senior Member
327 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
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Posted - 11/03/2009 : 6:25 AM
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Sean,
I am just running through all the various options. As you can tell diagnostics via the Internet can be hit or miss.
That's why I've asked if you have a manual for that particular bike/year/model.
You might very well, have to trace each and every wire, unplug each connection, and inspect each plug.
A bad ground, could be at fault, works fine one moment, then fails the next (but you knew that already).
Obviously you've checked for frayed wires in the harness, along the start/run circuit.
Sometimes I have to re-start at the beginning, and discount, any previous discoveries/assumption/findings. There's a passage in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" about what Pirsig calls "gumption traps". Sometimes you have to just walk away from the problem, give your mind time to clear, and then attack the problem from the beginning
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Indiana Randy
Moderator
1758 Posts
[Mentor]
Fort Wayne, Indiana
USA
Honda
2000 Magna V4 750
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Posted - 11/03/2009 : 3:57 PM
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quote:
Sometimes you have to just walk away from the problem, give your mind time to clear, and then attack the problem from the beginning
The mind still keeps working on the problem, as we relax and pretend to no longer be thinking about it. The subconscious is still busy at work processing all the details and possibilities. What we must do is to Listen to our thoughts and take action. Listen to the voice in our head then Act. Follow Through immediately. The 'ideas' are brief and reside in our short-term memory, so if we don't ACT, they are lost and gone forever. If nothing else, write it on a paper. Not later, NOW.
Some refer to this as Listening to the inner voice, or Listening to our guardian angel. It's our subconscious mind talking to us, bringing us ideas and solutions.
So YES, a break away to 'clear the mind' opens it up to 'Hear' the inner voice which often Has The Solution.
OK enuf of this heavy stuff. |
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1982 Yamaha Maxim xj750 dies!