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 Motorcycle Safety
 Sharing of Lessons Learned
 Why not to 'Hang off' on the street.
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The Meromorph
Male Moderator
834 Posts
[Mentor]


White House, TN
USA

BMW

R1100RT

Posted - 10/22/2014 :  1:11 PM                       Like
The reason for not normally hanging off on the street is:

Everybody makes mistakes


So keep 'hanging off' in reserve so that, when you misjudge a corner and go in too hot, and when you're at the limit of your bikes ground clearance, you can slide your body over to the inside of the turn and get a tighter turn when you really need it.

in other words,
Save hanging off as a rescue technique when you're in trouble in a bend.

This also means you should practice hanging off, either on track days,
or on very-low-traffic twisties at slow enough speeds that you don't need it.

scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6886 Posts
[Mentor]


Pleasanton, CA
USA

KTM

990 Adv, XR650L

Posted - 10/23/2014 :  8:13 AM
I don't quite agree with your advice, although I am not advocating hanging off when riding on the street either.

If you move over to the side of your bike while already in a turn, you're going to upset the balance of the bike and possibly lose traction where you might have had enough otherwise. If you're scraping hard parts, then it's probably your last remaining option, but I've never owned a bike that scraped anything in a turn.

Better to work on judging corners before entering them, do all of your braking before the turn starts, and accelerate out of the turn. You're much less likely to be hot into a turn if you do it that way.
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1689 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 10/23/2014 :  2:45 PM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
I think we need to differentiate "hanging off" vs "leaning in".

No doubt we all agree that taking corners so fast as to need to hang off like a roadracer is not what we'd like to see anyone do on public streets. Hanging off mid-corner when you're in trouble could be unsettling to the bike as well.

On the other hand, as has been suggested in the tip about dragging a peg in a corner, leaning the upper body over to the inside of the corner can save your bacon. It's not going to upset the bike by leaning, even mid turn.

Might as well practice it too, any corner, at speed safe enough to make it without doing any leaning at all.
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SteveS
Male Advanced Member
1207 Posts
[Mentor]


Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Harley-Davidson

FLHTK 2012

Posted - 10/23/2014 :  3:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Meromorph

The reason for not normally hanging off on the street is:

Everybody makes mistakes


So keep 'hanging off' in reserve so that, when you misjudge a corner and go in too hot, and when you're at the limit of your bikes ground clearance, you can slide your body over to the inside of the turn and get a tighter turn when you really need it.

in other words,
Save hanging off as a rescue technique when you're in trouble in a bend.

This also means you should practice hanging off, either on track days,
or on very-low-traffic twisties at slow enough speeds that you don't need it.





Practicing 'hanging off' should be in your muscle memory repertoire. This skill can be reinforced in PLP. Each advanced riding course I have taken has included this maneuver. It is more likely to be needed by Cruisers and Touring Bikes that others because of their low clearance.

I do not see that this technique, when needed, would have any negative impact on traction for a street bike. Throttle stays on, butt hangs off bike (or in my case sits on the saddlebag, to the inside of the curve/turn.

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JanK
Male Junior Member
76 Posts


Ljubljana, Ljubljana
Slovenia

BMW

F650CS

Posted - 10/24/2014 :  6:19 AM
May I quote again from Nick Ienatsch's book Sport Riding Techniques http://www.amazon.com/Sport-Riding-...p/1893618072




I believe rkfire talked about the difference between positions B (hanging off) and C (leaning in). I agree that position B is neither necessary nor wise on public streets.

But I also believe that, in addition to the reasons described by Ienatsch, the position C has two more advantages over riding in alignment with the bike, even if you don't move your butt and just lean your body towards the inside of each curve.

Everything about your whole body - arms, legs, hips,... is already set up to lean further into the curve, if the need arises (scraping a peg, realising you have gone in too hot,...) So, there's no "switching modes", you merely do what you are already doing, just increase the "degree" of lean.

You are also closer to neutral steering, thus the torque on the handlebars in a turn is smaller. This means that you get used to light handling and get to learn to feel what your motorcycle does, letting the motorcycle guide you through a turn, not forcing it trough a turn. Because of this, there is less of a chance you will try to use undue force in a critical situation and make things worse.

And position A - counterleaning - also has it's place - at tight, relatively slow turns, as in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kGi1tbtN0k
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Safe N Smiling
Male Junior Member
33 Posts


On a Bike Somewhere, Here and There
USA

(Unknown - Other)

Several Bikes

Posted - 09/18/2015 :  10:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SteveS

quote:
Originally posted by The Meromorph

The reason for not normally hanging off on the street is:

Everybody makes mistakes


So keep 'hanging off' in reserve so that, when you misjudge a corner and go in too hot, and when you're at the limit of your bikes ground clearance, you can slide your body over to the inside of the turn and get a tighter turn when you really need it.

in other words,
Save hanging off as a rescue technique when you're in trouble in a bend.

This also means you should practice hanging off, either on track days,
or on very-low-traffic twisties at slow enough speeds that you don't need it.





Practicing 'hanging off' should be in your muscle memory repertoire. This skill can be reinforced in PLP. Each advanced riding course I have taken has included this maneuver. It is more likely to be needed by Cruisers and Touring Bikes that others because of their low clearance.

I do not see that this technique, when needed, would have any negative impact on traction for a street bike. Throttle stays on, butt hangs off bike (or in my case sits on the saddlebag, to the inside of the curve/turn.





+1

A bike can be ridden very very smoothly shifting shoulders and butt. No reduction of traction and it gives you way more margin if there is a problem.

If done correctly you can increase how much you hang off the bike if the curve tightens or you have to go tighter.

The problem I see is that most people shift their weight by pulling against the handle bar to lift their ass. It should be done with knees and legs.

Doing it when it's not really needed increases muscle memory.
Making it muscle memory will make you naturally use whole body weight shifting and loading the peg to dodge a hazard.

Another interesting thing is it really increases comfort and reduces back stress and pain. It gives you legs some work to do keeping circulation going, it loosens up the lower back and pretty much does away with you butt getting sore or numb.

I thought a friend (65) to shift his weight and hips on turns and his riding back ache simply went away. HE said his back has not been so good in 15 years.

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greywolf
Male Moderator
1492 Posts
[Mentor]


Evanston, IL
USA

Suzuki

DL650AL2

Posted - 09/19/2015 :  8:15 AM
I've always used my legs to move my body to the best position for the situation. That got more difficult when I hit my late 60s. It also occurs to me that will be difficult to impossible on bikes with the foot controls too far forward, like on most cruisers.
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