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 Almost had head-on collision with Drunk Driver
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Safe N Smiling
Male Junior Member
33 Posts


On a Bike Somewhere, Here and There
USA

(Unknown - Other)

Several Bikes

Posted - 09/19/2015 :  8:33 PM                       Like
Edit:

Sorry I had to remove most of the details. I've been informed that I will be hearings and most likely a trial. Best to remove the detail for not.
I will post them back when possible.


Short version:
This week I almost had a head on collision with a drunk driver that was driving a large black range rover.

Managed to avoid the collision, "detain" and have the driver arrested.

Edited by - Safe N Smiling on 09/20/2015 4:26 PM

bricksrheavy
Male Standard Member
130 Posts


Europe
Croatia

Yamaha

FZ6

Posted - 09/20/2015 :  3:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Safe N Smiling



...
I play chicken for a beat and then swerve right. I use body weight and heavy loading of my right peg and let the steering follow with mild counter steering.
...



Using body weight and pivot steering seems like a very inefficient way to swerve in an emergency, wouldn't a firm input on the steering be more appropriate?
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Safe N Smiling
Male Junior Member
33 Posts


On a Bike Somewhere, Here and There
USA

(Unknown - Other)

Several Bikes

Posted - 09/20/2015 :  6:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bricksrheavy

quote:
Originally posted by Safe N Smiling



...
I play chicken for a beat and then swerve right. I use body weight and heavy loading of my right peg and let the steering follow with mild counter steering.
...



Using body weight and pivot steering seems like a very inefficient way to swerve in an emergency, wouldn't a firm input on the steering be more appropriate?



Edit:
removed for now. Sorry.







Edited by - Safe N Smiling on 09/20/2015 4:28 PM
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Safe N Smiling
Male Junior Member
33 Posts


On a Bike Somewhere, Here and There
USA

(Unknown - Other)

Several Bikes

Posted - 09/20/2015 :  6:20 AM
Before this thread takes the wrong turn (pun intended).... I'm not recommending what I did to avoid a drunk driver, just passing on what happened and how it worked for me. It won't work for someone who is not comfortable with weight shifting

Shifting weight when riding becomes a muscle memory thing for riders that do it all the time or most of the time. My commute is a really nice 1 hour slowish ride along a very twisty road through the hills. I shift my weight on nearly every curve despite quite modest speed. I do so so as to have more safety margin if there is gravel or something to dodge. I've ridden this way for many many years and developed muscle memory and I shift my weight without thinking.

Edit;
I removed part of the post, sorry.

Edited by - Safe N Smiling on 09/20/2015 4:31 PM
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greywolf
Male Moderator
1492 Posts
[Mentor]


Evanston, IL
USA

Suzuki

DL650AL2

Posted - 09/20/2015 :  10:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bricksrheavy

Using body weight and pivot steering seems like a very inefficient way to swerve in an emergency, wouldn't a firm input on the steering be more appropriate?

I'm with you. Body weight shifting inside a turn is most effective for adding ground clearance. Keeping the body upright while counter steering can get a bike to make quicker turns because less mass far from the pivot has to be moved. It's a good gymkhana tactic as long as there is enough ground clearance because counter weighting eats up cornering clearance. In most riding though, quick changes in direction much above walking speed require counter steering rather than weight shifting. Those who think otherwise should try steering a bike with a set of handlebars that are not connected to the steering. They are most likely moving the bars when shifting weight. Here's what happens when the bars can't move the steering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWuTcJcqAng
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Safe N Smiling
Male Junior Member
33 Posts


On a Bike Somewhere, Here and There
USA

(Unknown - Other)

Several Bikes

Posted - 09/20/2015 :  10:41 AM
I linked to the same video.


The important part is towards the end where it shows hot the bike counter steers even without hands on the bar.

So counter steering is always there and using body weight movement the right way makes the counter steering more effective and also improves handling of a tricky situation.

To put it simply counter steering works great and works better with shifting body weight when needed.

(Joke)
And just incase there is a misunderstanding this is not me:

https://youtu.be/Kq1zR84Ee34

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greywolf
Male Moderator
1492 Posts
[Mentor]


Evanston, IL
USA

Suzuki

DL650AL2

Posted - 09/20/2015 :  10:54 AM
Body weight shift is a minor part of steering unless more ground clearance is needed. Nearly all street maneuvers can be done perfectly well with no body weight shifting at all. I'll go as far as to say that if body weight shifting is needed, the rider was likely pushing the envelope too hard to begin with for safe street riding. Having somebody coming at you so closely that tucking a knee or elbow in to keep them from being hit is a major exception to that.

Heavy weight shifting and mild countersteering need to have those adjectives switched for quickest action.
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James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17283 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 09/20/2015 :  11:21 AM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
You survived, maintained your sense of reality, stayed calm, and unloaded a loaded gun. Bravo!

Nobody is suggesting that what you did was wrong relative to weight shifting and counter-steering. But, like Greywolf, I believe that aggressive counter-steering along with mild weight shifting is a FAR MORE EFFECTIVE way to deal with an emergency swerve than the reverse.

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Safe N Smiling
Male Junior Member
33 Posts


On a Bike Somewhere, Here and There
USA

(Unknown - Other)

Several Bikes

Posted - 09/20/2015 :  11:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by James R. Davis

You survived, maintained your sense of reality, stayed calm, and unloaded a loaded gun. Bravo!

Nobody is suggesting that what you did was wrong relative to weight shifting and counter-steering. But, like Greywolf, I believe that aggressive counter-steering along with mild weight shifting is a FAR MORE EFFECTIVE way to deal with an emergency swerve than the reverse.





I think we are all pretty much saying the same thing. It's a bit difficult to describe thing with without good old gesticulation to illustrate the description.
I'll try to elaborate. What I was trying to say is that very deliberate weight shifting and loading of the peg makes the bike respond to counter steering far more effectively as well as positioning the body better for a strong swerve and if necessary bailing off the bike.
I used the work mild counter steering to try to convey that less force is required to get the bike to respond to the counter steering and results in better traction.
At least this has been my experience in many many years of riding on quite challenging surfaces such as the large cobble stone roads in Italy in crazy Italian city traffic.

{img]http://image.shutterstock.com/displ...58815943.jpg[/img]

These are very large slick cobble stones. Quite slippery both dry and wet. Dust collects between them and gets kicked up onto the surface again and again by passing cars. The tram lines make it even more interesting.



Edit:
Removed part of the post for now , sorry.

Edited by - Safe N Smiling on 09/22/2015 9:41 AM
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bachman1961
Male Advanced Member
2263 Posts
[Mentor]


colorado springs, co
USA

Honda

CB750 NightHawk

Posted - 09/21/2015 :  12:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Safe N Smiling

Edit:

Sorry I had to remove most of the details. I've been informed that I will be hearings and most likely a trial. Best to remove the detail for not.
I will post them back when possible.


Short version:
This week I almost had a head on collision with a drunk driver that was driving a large black range rover.

Managed to avoid the collision, "detain" and have the driver arrested.



I appreciate the orig post. Glad it worked out well for you and happy to hear you took the time as a citizen to follow it through with local LEO to stop the situation then and there.
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Safe N Smiling
Male Junior Member
33 Posts


On a Bike Somewhere, Here and There
USA

(Unknown - Other)

Several Bikes

Posted - 09/21/2015 :  9:00 AM
Thanks bachman.

The drunk driver statistics are shocking:
In 2013, 10,076 people were killed and approximately 290,000 were injured.

I think that we should all be vigilant and do what we can to get drunks out from behind the wheel. Most of all we owe it to those elderly drivers that were here before us and who are largely responsible through their work and taxes for the building of the infrastructure that we all benefit from today.

To often I have read about some drunk driver killing someone that had survived wars, worked their whole life just to have their retirement destroyed either through death or severe injury.

Unfortunately there are drunk drivers everywhere and LEOs can't be everywhere. We really need to watch out for drunks and report them. Stop drunks if you see them getting into a car.

Unfortunately there is no instant solution and all the work done by LEOs is pretty much sandbagging a flooding river. What is worse there are the "Driving under the cell phone influence crowd". Some people are so damn addicted to senseless texting that it is becoming a similar problem to drunk driving.

I read a study that showed that cell phone texting has become the leading cause of death for teen drivers.
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DataDan
Advanced Member
540 Posts
[Mentor]


Central Coast, CA
USA

Yamaha

FJR1300

Posted - 09/21/2015 :  11:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Safe N Smiling

I read a study that showed that cell phone texting has become the leading cause of death for teen drivers.

I know that's a common perception, but it is not supported by the fatal crash data collected in the US. However, there may have been a study I'm not aware of that looked at a sample of crashes in detail to reach that conclusion.

Annual highway fatalities, injuries, crashes, and respective rates per mile traveled have been falling for many years, and there is no evidence that cell phones or texting have had a significant impact.
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bachman1961
Male Advanced Member
2263 Posts
[Mentor]


colorado springs, co
USA

Honda

CB750 NightHawk

Posted - 09/21/2015 :  1:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Safe N Smiling


The drunk driver statistics are shocking:
In 2013, 10,076 people were killed and approximately 290,000 were injured.




Yikes ...
I was taught a seatbelt lesson by a driver who had open alcohol in their car and slammed into my Jeep ejecting me when they skipped a flashing red light, 1981 or so.
Then in 95, my car stopped a DUI driver at an est 60 mph or better. That one just about erased me for good but I was belted in ever since that 81 incident.
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Safe N Smiling
Male Junior Member
33 Posts


On a Bike Somewhere, Here and There
USA

(Unknown - Other)

Several Bikes

Posted - 09/21/2015 :  8:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DataDan

quote:
Originally posted by Safe N Smiling

I read a study that showed that cell phone texting has become the leading cause of death for teen drivers.

I know that's a common perception, but it is not supported by the fatal crash data collected in the US. However, there may have been a study I'm not aware of that looked at a sample of crashes in detail to reach that conclusion.

Annual highway fatalities, injuries, crashes, and respective rates per mile traveled have been falling for many years, and there is no evidence that cell phones or texting have had a significant impact.



I cannot find the study itself, but here is an article that refers to it:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/...rs-1.5226036

More studies are needed.

Edited by - Safe N Smiling on 09/21/2015 8:57 PM
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DataDan
Advanced Member
540 Posts
[Mentor]


Central Coast, CA
USA

Yamaha

FJR1300

Posted - 09/22/2015 :  8:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Safe N Smiling

I cannot find the study itself, but here is an article that refers to it:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/...rs-1.5226036


Thanks for the link. The article states:


The number of teens who are dying or being injured as a result of texting while driving has skyrocketed as mobile device technology has advanced. Researchers at Cohen Children's Medical Center in New Hyde Park estimate more than 3,000 annual teen deaths nationwide from texting and 300,000 injuries.

In 2013, fewer than 3500 victims aged 19 and under died in US motor vehicle crashes. That includes both vehicle occupants and non-occupants such as peds and cyclists.

I don't want to diminish the problems caused by inattentive drivers, but data in the Newsday article is pure bunk.

EDIT: corrected number of deaths <= 19 years

Edited by - DataDan on 09/22/2015 9:07 AM
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Safe N Smiling
Male Junior Member
33 Posts


On a Bike Somewhere, Here and There
USA

(Unknown - Other)

Several Bikes

Posted - 09/22/2015 :  9:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by DataDan

quote:
Originally posted by Safe N Smiling

I cannot find the study itself, but here is an article that refers to it:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/...rs-1.5226036


Thanks for the link. The article states:


The number of teens who are dying or being injured as a result of texting while driving has skyrocketed as mobile device technology has advanced. Researchers at Cohen Children's Medical Center in New Hyde Park estimate more than 3,000 annual teen deaths nationwide from texting and 300,000 injuries.

In 2013, fewer than 3500 victims aged 19 and under died in US motor vehicle crashes. That includes both vehicle occupants and non-occupants such as peds and cyclists.

I don't want to diminish the problems caused by inattentive drivers, but data in the Newsday article is pure bunk.

EDIT: corrected number of deaths <= 19 years



There may be a simple explanation for the discrepancy.

Reported fatalities (from emergency responders) are those that occure at the scene of the accident or immediately after the accident.

Many people die even a few months after accidents.

The estimates by the Cohen Children's Medical Center in New Hyde Park possibly include those that die long after the accident. Still based on estimates.

There are very big interests at play. You can rest assured that both the motorcar industry and the cell phone industry favor under reporting of the negative issues.

My father in law was the victim of an accident. He suffered traumatic brain damage. While it seemed he was making a quite good recovery things took a bad turn quite a few months later.
He lost certain body functions and died shortly after.

A cousin of mine died several years after a very bad accident that rendered him a paraplegic

Another thing to keep in mind is that cell phone manufacturers ( the biggest company in the world is one) go to great lengths to keep bad news about their devices and their effect out of the news. Simply the massive amount of advertising they do discourages the media from publishing significant news and information on the issue. I work in the media and I can tell you for sure that that is how things work.

My point is that one can expect the same type of under reporting, cover ups and lack of enforcement around smart phone issues somewhat like we did around big tobacco. I'm not being a conspiracy theorist or anything, it's just the nature of big business interests and what is even more important is that the interests today in the smart phone business are far bigger than tobacco ever was.
.
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Horse
Senior Member
263 Posts


Newbury, Berkshire
United Kingdom

BMW

R850RT

Posted - 09/22/2015 :  9:45 AM
I happened across some UK stats today, so FYI.

http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/e...g_ppr371.pdf

There were 50 KSI casualties between 2008 and 2012 in collisions where a driver/rider was recorded with ?driver using mobile phone? as a contributory factor, 0.6% of all KSI casualties in the area.

Interestingly, given the concerns about under-reporting:

The use of mobile phones is more likely to be investigated for high severity collisions, which may involve accessing records from mobile phone operators.

In the UK, from 2008 - 2012, of 115,600 KSI (killed & seriously injured), 468 were identified as involving mobile phone use.
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