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Tlanuwa
 Junior Member
32 Posts
Great Falls, MT
USA
Harley-Davidson
2004 FXST Softail
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 Posted - 08/19/2006 : 8:26 PM
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Glad to be back! My disappearance had to do with the disappearance of my beloved Boulevard M50 -- feeding my wife and me in the months leading up to my commissioning in the US Air Force proved a bit more important than having a motorcycle ("Blasphemy!" some will certainly shout, but hey, YOU tell that to my wife...).
The long and short of it now is that I've commissioned. As she has the newer of the cages between us, I'll be selling my 'Stang for somewhere around $5500. I'll be waiting until probably mid or late September to buy a new one, but I wanted some feedback on my thoughts.
I've decided against another cruiser for the moment, as the next time I buy one, I want a Harley, and I can't afford it at the moment. So my next choice would be a sport bike. I won't say that I'm scared QUITE to death, but close. :-D
Here's what I'm thinking. My top choice (aside from a Hayabusa) would be a GSX-R600. Next would be the Yamaha R6, and then I haven't a clue. I don't like the CBRs too much. What I have no idea about is the Ninja 650 and the ZX-6R (I think that's it...). They're cheaper than the equivalent Suzuki or Yamaha, but are they of comparable quality?
Bearing in mind that my only riding experience has been on the M50 (800cc, well balanced cruiser), am I going to find myself with way to much speed for an enjoyable and safe ride on these bikes? And just for the fun of discussion, what about the 'Busa? I LOVE the bike, and it would take some squeezing to afford it, but my wife likes it, too. Is it simply ridiculously out of the power-range I need to look into?
Once again, it's good to be back. If anyone's in or around the Lompoc/Santa Maria, California area after September 6, send me a message!
Blessings,
John
Edit: Ooh ooh! Forgot about the 'Zuki Katana. I like the price a lot better than the GSX-R, but you can't be the looks of it's big brother. What about it's relative performance (to the others I mentioned)? Thanks again!
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Edited by - Tlanuwa on 08/19/2006 8:41 PM |
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James R. Davis
Administrator
14909 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
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Posted - 08/19/2006 : 8:51 PM
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Congratulations on the commission and thank you for serving your country.
One would think that as a result of obtaining that commission you will soon be tasked to begin making important decisions. And, you will be responsible for the well being of those under your command. This, of course, in addition to responsibilities for the well being of your wife. (In case you are naive ... don't think that your 'civilian choices' aren't evaluated as part of your what goes into deciding how high in rank you are going to go. If a bad accident doesn't end your military career, bad personal choices will certainly stop your growth there.)
So there is no doubt in my mind that you will think twice before buying a sport bike. Indeed, you might want to think about whether or not there are more important and pressing things to occupy your attention now than a motorcycle.
If you want to discount your wife, the government (we the people) have invested mightily in your training so far and as a result of obtaining your commission you are now a resource of both tactical and strategic importance. It would be a shame for you to throw that away to satisfy itch. If you want not to discount your wife, then there is even more to throw away by satisfying that itch.
Do you know a lot of officers that you respect who ride sport bikes?
I'm sure this message will not be held in high regard by many here, but I'm not known for holding back. In my opinion you need to respect what that commission means, and a young wife, more than some urge to go fast 'carving canyons' on two wheels. We (certainly I) already think of you as the cream of the crop as a result of your commission. Fast and sporty do not mean 'macho' or 'with it' or 'daring do well' - it means, at least modestly, childish fun and an inability to prioritize responsible choices well.
For those here who ride sport bikes ... I love ya, brothers and sisters. We just have different values and make different choices. If you know what you are doing and are competent AND MATURE, your odds are about as good as mine out there. But those of you who moved up from a cruiser in your early 20's wanting a Hayabusa or a GSX-R600 as your first sport bike probably can't relate in any way to this message so let's just say we agree to disagree about it.
quote:
feeding my wife and me in the months leading up to my commissioning in the US Air Force proved a bit more important than having a motorcycle ("Blasphemy!" some will certainly shout, but hey, YOU tell that to my wife...).
I'd say she makes a LOT OF SENSE. Now it's your turn to do the same. |
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jboogie
Junior Member
26 Posts
santa monica, CA
USA
Triumph
Speed Four
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Posted - 08/20/2006 : 2:41 AM
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Hi,
I am a fairly new rider and you probably have a lot more riding experience than me nevertheless i agree with mr. davis and i would like to also add i think the triumph speed four (600cc) is the greatest bike. The bike isnt super quick like those gsxr or r6's, this bike has a really managable throttle and steady acceleration. The bike is also light and really manuverable plus the riding position is comfortable enough to ride for a few hours straight. In summation it is an aggressively styled yet comfortably designed and it has a relaxed engine perfect for street with amazing manuverablity. oh yea and they are all real affordable...
some other bikes i enjoyed with almost similiar traits are the ninja 600r ('06), fz6 , bmw r1150r .. good luck |
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mikejr
Junior Member
28 Posts
Lynchburg, VA
USA
Yamaha
YZF600R
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Posted - 08/20/2006 : 11:56 AM
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Hi there Tlanuwa,
like you my only experience was on cruisers (not mine), and I wanted a sport bike. These bikes suffer from a poor image, but have a lot going for them in their own respect.
The hayabusa, while fast, is actually a very drivable machine. Much more so than a GSX1000 or R1. If this is your first time on a sportbike, I would suggest looking at the following few models sorted by performnce(low to high):
Suzuka Katana 600: not terribly powerful, and handling is poor compared to others, but a very manageable entry level sportbike for experienced riders. While it may be the slowest of the list, it has more than enough bite to frighten the uninitiated. 70ish HP depending on published specs
Kawasaka Ninja 650R: entry level 600 class ninja. Do not confuse this with the ZX-6R, this bike does not make nearly the horsepower and is a very streetable bike. 70HP
Suzuki Katana 750: More powerful (slightly heavier) variant of the Katana above.
Triumph Speed Four: Included due to the above suggestions, I don't usually like naked bikes but it has received good reviews. 88HP
Yamaha YZF600R: unchanged since 1997, this bike makes upwards of 90HP and is really on the threshhold of modern performance bikes and what's suitable for a first sportbike.
Honda CBR600F4i: Honda's streetable 600, perhaps just over the line, but similar to the YZF600R. 96HP
The following bikes are hair-trigger, wheelie popping, toe-tagging, balls to the walls performance bikes and might not make an appropriate first sportbike regardless of experience on other styles:
Honda CBR600RR
Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R
Yamaha YZF R6
Suzuki GSX600R
While I don't claim to be an expert rider, or an authority on motorcycles in general, I spent countless hours(read years) reading, trolling, assimilating, and finally test riding before deciding on a YZF600R and 6k miles later feel I made a good choice.
edited for spelling |
Edited by - mikejr on 08/20/2006 12:15 PM |
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
5247 Posts
[Mentor]
Pleasanton, CA
USA
KTM
990 Adv, ST2, XR650L
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Posted - 08/20/2006 : 1:32 PM
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Is it most important what other people think of the bike you ride, or how much you enjoy riding it?
Of the bikes on your list, I expect that you would enjoy the Katana the most. The GSX-R600 looks most like a SuperSport racer, and is fairly easy to live with as long as you don't go over about 7000 rpms. You would want to make sure you can live with the riding position. I wouldn't want to ride one for several hundred miles, like the trip I went on last week.
I know someone with a Hayabusa who got it as his second bike and seems to be doing okay on it. However he has never opened the throttle all the way in two years of owning it. They make good sport touring bikes if you can live with the massive amount of power.
I too think you should consider a Triumph Speed-Triple or Speed-Four as well as a Ducati Monster. There are other cool bikes out there that are much less common than a GSX-R600 that are more appropriate as a second bike.
I would like to ask you what are the most important characteristics of the bike you're looking at. Appearance? Price? Reliability? Posing factor? Speed? Fun factor?
I would also like to ask you how you expect to be riding it. What percentage of the time will be on freeways, city streets, short trips, long trips, twisty roads, hanging out at Starbucks?
Please think about some of these questions and let us know what's important in a bike, and I think we can better guide you to the one you'll be most happy with. |
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James R. Davis
Administrator
14909 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
Peer Review:
-1
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Posted - 08/20/2006 : 2:02 PM
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quote:
Is it most important what other people think of the bike you ride, or how much you enjoy riding it?
I think that begs the real issue. Most people would answer that, because there is no other real choice, that how much they enjoy riding it is more important. Nobody (well, darn few people) would admit that what other people think is more important. Besides, he ASKED for opinions and that's what he's getting. Do you think he was being disingenuous in asking for opinions?
quote:
I know someone with a Hayabusa who got it as his second bike and seems to be doing okay on it. However he has never opened the throttle all the way in two years of owning it. They make good sport touring bikes if you can live with the massive amount of power.
This person is less than 30 years old and he hasn't cranked his throttle all the way? I, too, know people mature enough to handle ANY sized engine of ANY style. (NOT INCLUDING MYSELF - Ask OB who handed me the keys to his Bandit 1100 and I decided NOT to take them because I don't trust myself enough to handle that much performance on the street.) But none who are in their 20's. Maturity and judgement usually take a few years to develop. Sure, there are exceptions, and they are just that - exceptions. Do you think a Navy pilot who dreams of handling an F-18 has the slightest bit of concern about handling a puny/wimpy motorcycle? If he knows he has an after-burner under his butt do you think he wont try it out? How many of them REALLY understand that they are mortal?
He may well be the safest rider of motorcycles ever born. But what are the odds that he won't crank that throttle into after-burner mode?
And if he is that safest rider and he either takes or ignores the advice presented here, then no harm, no foul. But if he's not, and he takes the advice presented here he might become an ace pilot instead of a statistic.
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JuniperBug
Standard Member
115 Posts
Montreal, Quebec
Canada
Kawasaki
Ninja 600R
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Posted - 08/20/2006 : 3:29 PM
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Considering that you're coming from a cruiser and plan on returning to one when you can afford it, my guess is that you don't have aspirations of serious track riding or generally riding the very edge - a wise decision in my book. With that in mind, my suggestion is to forget bikes like the GSX-R 600 and R-6, as well as the CBR600RR. These bikes are narrowly focused race machines - unforgiving, peaky and generally uncomfortable over long distances. Bikes like the ZX-6R and CBR600F4i are a little less extreme, but were still considered world-class performance bikes 3 or 4 years ago, and are still pretty brutal. The YZF 600 might fit into this class as well, but to a lesser extent. I actually really recommend this bike after spending about 1000 miles on one - 100 hp at the crank is way more than enough power and it's pretty torquey too. Handling is very competent but still pretty forgiving and the bike is surprisingly comfortable (at least to me). I've ridden the CBR600RR (~120 hp) as well as a GSX-R 1100 (155 hp), and the YZF was by far the most fun to me with its effortless handling, smooth engine and comfortable ergonomics. They've also been around for over 10 years almost unchanged, so parts should be easy to come by.
Bikes like the Suzuki SV650 and Ninja 650R are a bit more mild, both in riding position and power output. I'm sure they'd still be lots of fun, though, and relatively inexpensive. V-twin engine also means they'll be pretty torquey, which is nice if you're riding around town.
As far as quality goes, just about all of them will probably be reliable for longer than you're likely to own the bike. A friend of mine has a '96 YZF 600 with over 40k miles that runs and looks like brand new. I don't think quality should be much of a factor for any of the current Japanese bikes.
Now lastly is the Hayabusa. As you know, this thing is a special animal. It may be very well-suited to touring (and according to people who've ridden it, it is) and easy to handle for someone who's used to a heavier bike, but it has an ENORMOUS amount of power. Unlike most sportbikes, which only really pull at high revs, this thing will jump into extra-legal velocities, any time, any gear. If you're at all the sort of person who gets tempted, I'd stay far away from it. |
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Mystic Red
Senior Member
294 Posts
Twin Lakes, Idaho
USA
BMW
K1100LT
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Posted - 08/20/2006 : 7:51 PM
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A "sport bike " that is not quite as sporty and worth looking at is the BMW K1100RS. Bullet proof engine and worthy of an officer! Sorry Scott, Ducs are too but BMW's exude class, in my mind. I might be a little prejudiced! And they fit right into that $5500 range. Here's a pic of one of the guys on the KOG bike.
http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43f2d2...Q6EBuVRjdlu_ |
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kiddal
Moderator
1562 Posts
[Mentor]
SE, Indiana
USA
Kawasaki
KLR650
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Posted - 08/20/2006 : 8:45 PM
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A Hayabusa (plus rider) would have roughly the same power to weight ratio as a sports car with something like 800+ HP. In other words, a little better than a NASCAR racer (sans restrictor plate).
I would only get one if my right hand never made mistakes. In my case that's not true, so I guess a super bike is not an option for me.
I think those bikes should come with a gun pointed at your head as standard equipment. |
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Tlanuwa
Junior Member
32 Posts
Great Falls, MT
USA
Harley-Davidson
2004 FXST Softail
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Posted - 08/20/2006 : 8:50 PM
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Thank you all for your kind words and well-presented information and opinions.
Let me say this: everyone, I think -- even (if not especially!) Butter Bar Lieutenants -- is entitled to a bit of stupid, selfish desire every now and then. I count myself lucky to have very tolerant (and, when necessary, blunt) family and friends to pop my big head when it threatens to lift me straight off Terra Firma and into the skies.
I certainly had not decided to look into the sport bikes I did or the class(es) in general because of what anyone else thought about them. I know the friends of mine who've had a sport bike had a blast riding it (ok, some less safely than others, and most less safely than I would be riding). Aside from that, I DID want to wait on the Harley for a next cruiser. My problem was a near absolute ignorance regarding these kinds of motorcycles, except that I knew 600cc's on a cruiser is a heckuva lot slower than that on a bike built for speed.
What I've come to at this juncture is this: riding motorcycles is a passion of mine that I won't ever, God willing, give up on. But it's the ride, the wind and the sun, peeling the bugs off the bike you just spent two hours cleaning and polishing and polishing some more -- you know, the fun stuff -- that I love, NOT how fast I can go or how low I can lay it around those curves meant for a quarter of the speed or what my buddies think of it that guides my hand towards the throttle of the bike I choose.
If I still end up with a sport bike, then I'll ride a sport bike just as safely and with all the fun and passion I had when I started riding. But I suspect, at least at this juncture, I'm going to be sticking with the bigger, slower types suited more to my taste and wants in riding. Even if I can't quite swing the Harley of my dreams just yet.... I will, however, be able to reflect on each of the bikes I consider with a better understanding of just what they're built to do, thanks to you all!
Thanks again for all the help and information! I apologize for my exceedingly long posts -- I was, eh, home sick on the day they taught brevity in speaking.... |
Edited by - Tlanuwa on 08/20/2006 8:54 PM |
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JuniperBug
Standard Member
115 Posts
Montreal, Quebec
Canada
Kawasaki
Ninja 600R
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Posted - 08/20/2006 : 9:04 PM
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Once you have a certain amount of skill on handling a bike, a sportbike won't do anything more than what you ask of it. Yes, the handling and throttle are much sharper and less forgiving, but once you know how to ride, it won't get you into any more trouble than you let it. As said, though, it might tempt you more.
If you're responsible and reasonably skilled on a cruiser, you should be fine on a sportbike, and definitely can appreciate at least some of its dynamic abilities without pushing the limits of safety. It just becomes a question of how much "sportiness" is appropriate for your particular desires and riding preferences. It's the same thing as the middle aged guys who buy Porsches, Corvettes and Ferraris - you generally don't see them speeding, but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy their car. |
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mack8477
Junior Member
99 Posts
Seattle, WA
USA
Honda
1981 cb750c
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Posted - 08/21/2006 : 2:01 PM
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You might want to take a look at a bike which I think is somewhere between a sport bike and a curiser. The Suzuki Vstrom is one I have been considering. It is more of a Standard. From what I can gather it is even suitable for some light off pavement duty, fire roads and such. This is just what I have read about it, I have not had a chance to ride one yet.
It comes in a 650 and a 1000 cc version and the 2007 650cc version is available with ABS. Price is pretty reasonable too. |
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Niebor
Ex-Member
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Posted - 08/21/2006 : 2:20 PM
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I am curious. Would it not be possible to de-tune or limit power production on most any bike? The technical approach is perhaps a rev-limiter, but it seems merely limiting throttle travel would get the job done?
While there may be some issues in not running an engine in the power band occasionally, most engines today burn clean enough this would not be an issue.
Another advantage could be one of longevity. It would seem that wear would be virtually non-existent on a machine running at perhaps 20% of its design. |
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mikejr
Junior Member
28 Posts
Lynchburg, VA
USA
Yamaha
YZF600R
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Posted - 08/21/2006 : 3:24 PM
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Neibor, it's amazing how many times that exact same suggestion is made by riders on sportbike forums, usually as a way to justify that Hayabusa as their first bike :)
My bike, and the R1 I have ridden on occasion ride about the same if you let them, that is to say if you're conservative on the throttle you may not even notice the difference right off. But when you open it up, it's another world all together. The general consensus is that it's better to start on something smaller and more forgiving to the new rider, given them a chance to work on their skills and habits while taking the hardware out of the equation - or at lessening its effect.
Some of the bikes mentioned have so much torque that a throttle limiter might install a false sense of security into the rider. Likewise, I'm sure a bike could be "detuned", but the effect on the throttle map and computer in general could be detrimental...
Some of the bikes mentioned have so much torque that a throttle limiter might install a false sense of security into the rider. Likewise, I'm sure a bike could be "detuned", but the effect on the throttle map and computer in general could be detrimental.
Besides, when you do that I'm not sure you're getting the bike fo rthe right reasons... |
Edited by - mikejr on 08/21/2006 3:25 PM |
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kiddal
Moderator
1562 Posts
[Mentor]
SE, Indiana
USA
Kawasaki
KLR650
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Posted - 08/21/2006 : 7:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Niebor
Would it not be possible to de-tune or limit power production on most any bike? The technical approach is perhaps a rev-limiter, but it seems merely limiting throttle travel would get the job done?
The practical solution is buy a less powerful bike. You will then have a couple grand extra (or more) in your pocket.
A 160 HP sport bike is for posing. There is no legal or sane way to use that power on a public road. Even 99% of the most over-the-top, aggressive street riders could never use all the power even if they tried (and half of those probably wouldn't live to tell about it). |
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Deseret Rider
Advanced Member
773 Posts
[Mentor]
Helper, Utah
USA
BMW
R1100RT
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Posted - 08/21/2006 : 8:41 PM
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I'll come right to the point-----
One of the new BMW R1200's will more than fill your every requirment. I'ts your life---live it with gusto and enjoy your youth----and thank you for your service to our country----may God go with you ! |
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amhopf
Standard Member
216 Posts
Littleton, Colorado
USA
Honda
02 VFR800 ABS
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Posted - 08/22/2006 : 1:02 PM
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WOW, not one mention of my new bike the Honda VFR800? I came off a cruiser looking for a "sport bike" and came out with the best of both worlds. Here's why:
- Looks like a race bike to most people
- 100 HP V4 Engine (torque of a v-twin & High rev HP of a i4)
- Comfortable seat and riding position (compared to race replicas)
- Factory ABS option (i got it just in case)
- Factory hard luggage option for touring
- Seat cowel & Passenger grab handles (removable)
- Center stand (I use it every time)
- VTEC engine (saves gas in low RPMs, gives passing power when you goose it)
- Sounds sweet (unlike any other bike due to the engine)
- Single Sided Swing Arm (think Ducati look-a-like)
- cult following (ok i'm pushing it now, but it's not a squid's bike)
The down side
- less HP per $ compared to the race replicas
- Higher curb weight 550 lbs (i don't think it rides heavy)
- Suspension is not as adjustable as most sport bikes
- no one will recognize it (this could be good or bad)
Ok so i love my new bike, is that so bad |
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mikejr
Junior Member
28 Posts
Lynchburg, VA
USA
Yamaha
YZF600R
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Posted - 08/22/2006 : 1:20 PM
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amhopf, I REALLY like those VFR800's, but haven't really seen one "in the wild" yet. Nice bike, but the cost is closing in on RC51 territory  |
Edited by - mikejr on 08/22/2006 1:22 PM |
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miggz
Junior Member
58 Posts
Las Cruces, NM
USA
Kawasaki
EX650r
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Posted - 08/23/2006 : 1:37 AM
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I just got my first bike...06' ninja 650r. but its not really a ninja. EX650r officialy. exactly the same (i think) as the euro version ER6r and ER6n. twin engine
I love it. mellow on the throttle and handling (higher bars..lower seat) but more than plenty power for me. Im one of those middle aged dudes described above. I want to enjoy it.
M |
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Dogugotw
Standard Member
114 Posts
Bristol, NH
USA
Kawasaki
'06 EX500
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Posted - 08/23/2006 : 9:05 AM
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I've ridden everything from a single cylinder Kawi 250 to a Yamaha 920 Virago, none of them sport bikes. Last fall I re-started riding on a Kawi EX550. I have NEVER had so much fun on two wheels. The bike has plenty of power to get you down the road, corners great, has an almost bulletproof engine (same design since '94), sits pretty much upright so you're not in that sport bike hunker, is very quite, and gets great gas mileage. You can ride sedately or aggressively as you wish or the situation allows and the bike handles well in either situation.
Oh, and it was the bike Tom Cruise rode in Top Gun so it is 'Officer Qualified' ;-)
I put 130 miles a day on the bike and it just cranks. With a tail bag, full gear, and a Mil-spec vest I don't think I look too very aggressive on the bike and I certainly don't ride in a way that makes me a problem to the cagers (just changed my back tire - got 11K on a stock Bridegstone that normally goes 5K). This bike satisfies my financial needs (cheap to get in, cheap to run), my commuting needs (comfortable for an hour or two at a time and great gas mileage), and my soul (finally learning how to really corner is the best).
HTH
Doug |
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
5247 Posts
[Mentor]
Pleasanton, CA
USA
KTM
990 Adv, ST2, XR650L
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Posted - 08/23/2006 : 10:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogugotw
Oh, and it was the bike Tom Cruise rode in Top Gun so it is 'Officer Qualified' ;-)
That bike was either a ZX900 or ZX1000, not an EX500 or EX550. Sorry. |
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Hello again, friends. A question about Sport bikes.