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 Motorcycle Safety
 Rider Training Courses
 US Military rider training - outcomes
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Horse
Senior Member
263 Posts


Newbury, Berkshire
United Kingdom

BMW

R850RT

Posted - 10/04/2014 :  8:11 AM                       Like
Mentioned in another thread, I know that the US Military have been involved with rider training courses - was there one with MSF and another with CSS?

Was there ever any follow-up on the effectiveness of these courses, reduction in casualties etc?

rkfire
Advanced Member
1695 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 10/05/2014 :  7:06 AM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
I found this article. Looks to me like after the peak, when they started the programs, the rate dropped but is climbing back up.

http://www.usmedicine.com/agencies/...n-dangerous/
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TonicBIA
Male Senior Member
382 Posts


Arlington, Va
USA

Triumph

Sprint ST

Peer Review: 1

Posted - 10/07/2014 :  12:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Horse

Mentioned in another thread, I know that the US Military have been involved with rider training courses - was there one with MSF and another with CSS?

Was there ever any follow-up on the effectiveness of these courses, reduction in casualties etc?



There's been quite a bit done with teh US Military and Rider Training.

Largest player - Cape Fox Corporation. Three of its subsidiaries provide rider training services to the military. Cape Fox Professional Services does Marine Corps and Navy, Government Services does Army and Federal Integrators does the Air Force. Through these contracts quite a few other players were brought on board.

I participated in both the California Superbike School Military program (both AMOS and track days) as an instructor. I also got to help test the MSF Kevin Schwantz Course.

One reason rates might be going up is the cutback the Army made in training in 2010. Due to an effort to save money the mandatory minimums for running a class were raised and a lot less soldiers received BRC & BRC2 training.

Currently the CFPS contract is running out and most of their instructors received a letter to inform them that their employment is up.

The safety centers of each branch actually put out annual numbers on total number of riders, crashes and fatalities. The first two are a bit murky since not all riders report themselves and not all crashes get back to the safety center. However, I'd be interested in seeing a study using best available data to see the crashes & fatalities per capita between all branches.
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TonicBIA
Male Senior Member
382 Posts


Arlington, Va
USA

Triumph

Sprint ST

Posted - 10/30/2014 :  7:58 AM
Looks like there was an increase in issues following the Navy cuts to training as well. I ran across this today looking for the new navy contract holder and found slide 3 of note

http://www.public.navy.mil/comnavsa...pdc_pmv2.pdf
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gymnast
Moderator
4267 Posts
[Mentor]


Meridian, Idaho
USA

Harley-Davidson

Sportster Sport

Posted - 10/30/2014 :  1:35 PM
Tonic, that is great report.
About the only thing I have to add is that in the civilian world we do not have a CO. Perhaps the CO's authority is the reason that the military's training appears to be both effective as well as cost effective and that there are questions as to the variability and effectiveness of civilian programs. The military's mentoring program may be a missing variable in the civilian world as well.

Question for further research. Does the rider training provided by the military carry over to reduced crash frequency and severity when the trained military members return to civilian status?
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TonicBIA
Male Senior Member
382 Posts


Arlington, Va
USA

Triumph

Sprint ST

Posted - 10/30/2014 :  1:55 PM
Great question- I've never heard of such a report. I imagine tracking that violates some PII law/agreement.

A few things about military training from my own experience:


  • There are lots of dirty riders out there (base doesn't know they ride)
  • Not every unit tracks training (At the request of the base commander we ran the names of all known motorcyclists at Quantico through in 2010 and found a 60% compliance rate)
  • Some riders find ways to self report training when they didn't actually take it. I've seen fake cards, fake notes, fake ESAMS print outs
  • Tracking for third year refresher training is dodgy at best
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Arnold
Male Standard Member
172 Posts


Santa Monica, CA
USA

Kawasaki

KZ1000

Posted - 10/30/2014 :  3:08 PM
Wow this is great info! Thank you Tonic and everyone else who has participated. I had mentioned in the earlier thread my nephew who was stationed on a military base that included a huge motorcycle culture.

I know that reps from the largest motorcycle manufacturers visit the base and allow demo rides of some of their largest and fastest bikes. According to my nephew the scene is reminiscent of my younger years, when returning vets would purchase an American muscle car. Since vehicles have become so expensive, motorcycles provide incredibly cheap access to high-performance and high-horsepower for 19 or 20 year olds.

Most of these kids also are young enough that they are just beginning to establish a credit history. The motorcycle reps push financing a bike as a good way to build a credit history for when a young soldier wishes to purchase a house.

As I had also mentioned earlier, my nephew and some of his friends have put down deposits (or plan to put one down) on the Kawasaki H2R. Even though this will be a $25k bike, it is still affordable for a 25-30yr old especially when financed over 5 or 6 years.

Even without the H2R, there are MUCH cheaper ways into the "200 mph club". Most liter bikes are capable of 185 mph + and many are capable of over 200 mph. Ryan has told me that all it requires is disabling the speed limiter. Apparently most modern superbikes are factory limited to 195 mph. But the speed limiter is easily removed or disabled.

I don't advocate any of this but I also understand to some degree what it is like to be 25 years old and invincible. Anyone on this board who is over 50 years old and has been riding for any length of time has most likely exceeded 100 mph or more when they were younger. I know I have. Wouldn't do it again, but youth is a funny thing.

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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6890 Posts
[Mentor]


Pleasanton, CA
USA

KTM

990 Adv, XR650L

Posted - 10/30/2014 :  7:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Arnold

Apparently most modern superbikes are factory limited to 195 mph. But the speed limiter is easily removed or disabled.
186 mph. That just happens to be 300 kph.
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