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 What caused this low-side
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TSGM
Male Junior Member
27 Posts


Central-ish, NJ
USA

Honda

Posted - 08/17/2016 :  4:05 AM                       Like
Hi folks. It's been a number of years since my last post. This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBGEr0432yE was shared on Reddit and there was a lot of differing opinions about the cause of the crash and how it could have been prevented.

Opinions included:


  • Rider was going 20-25kph over the speed limit when he hit the turn

  • Rider had improper lean (this one is the most controversial)

  • Poor road conditions (right outside the petrol station and looks like it had rained recently)

  • Poor tires (cold, poor quality, etc.)



What were your thoughts?

rkfire
Advanced Member
1689 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 08/17/2016 :  7:31 AM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
It looked to me a couple of factors. The road was damp, it seemed that corner where it crashed had a darker streak right where his track was, it seemed to me he was going faster than prudent and he had an unusual turning method. It seemed to me from the couple of corners he negotiated, he really pitched the bike into a lean more abruptly than necessary. He was also running wide in the corner, which makes me wonder if he hit the brake(s).

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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6886 Posts
[Mentor]


Pleasanton, CA
USA

KTM

990 Adv, XR650L

Posted - 08/17/2016 :  10:21 AM
It was either the tires or the road surface that didn't offer enough traction. The lean angle didn't look all that extreme and I was looking for sudden steering inputs, but it looks to me like the big turn to the left was after traction was lost.

Apparently, one of the most difficult skills for new riders to learn is judging available traction. This is where dirt riding experience really pays off, because you spend a lot of time with less traction than you would like off road.

In damp conditions, I would be going slower than he was in the corners, because I just don't trust the traction in that situation.
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commonground
Male Standard Member
155 Posts


Windsor, PA
USA

Yamaha

V Star 1300

Posted - 08/17/2016 :  6:20 PM
When watching the video you have no idea of speed of playback. It could be fast, it could be slow. (Mine seem to come out fast)

Lean angle is tough to determine with a helmet mount cam.

It appears that traction was a major factor but, road condition cannot be determined by watching the video.

Tire condition cannot be determined either.

Making a determination of the cause of the incident is tantamount to doing a home value appraisal over the phone. Not enough information.
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bachman1961
Male Advanced Member
2263 Posts
[Mentor]


colorado springs, co
USA

Honda

CB750 NightHawk

Posted - 08/19/2016 :  4:45 AM
Definitely a tough read from that perspective of the video.

I just don't get a good feel for his harmony with the bike as per technique on curves and lean. He appears too aloof for the speed he is riding and that curve does't appear too tight or intimidating.

I think he is just demonstrating poor tactics (body positioning) coupled with too much speed. I'm not sure factors of traction or a damp surface is a cause but it could certainly be a variable if he's already made a few other errors.

I'd guess he sees he is wandering out wide (panic) and is too abrupt with cutting throttle or brake forces, ie; cause for loss of traction.

Edited by - bachman1961 on 08/19/2016 4:50 AM
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1689 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 08/19/2016 :  7:25 AM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
quote:
Originally posted by commonground

When watching the video you have no idea of speed of playback. It could be fast, it could be slow. (Mine seem to come out fast)

Lean angle is tough to determine with a helmet mount cam.

It appears that traction was a major factor but, road condition cannot be determined by watching the video.

Tire condition cannot be determined either.

Making a determination of the cause of the incident is tantamount to doing a home value appraisal over the phone. Not enough information.



I only take the video as it is presented. If it's speeded up or slowed down is beyond my control.

I don't have a problem estimating his modest lean, by viewing the bike angle to the relationship to the road.

Road condition at least had several tips. He swerved around water puddles in the early part of the video, at the crash site the camera showed broken up asphalt with water in the crevasses, and I mentioned the dark streak shown near his wide line in the crash curve. The dark line may or may not be something slippery. None the less, the road was damp, and there was asphalt broken up in that corner. Traction of the road was not optimum.

It's a fairly new bike model, and at least the rear tire tread was visible when he was going to pick it up. A glimpse of the front tire at least showed tread. There appeared to be plenty of tread on the rear.

He seemed to me, to be running wide in the crash corner. His focus in his editing text points out the steel poles along the side of the road. He may very well have been focusing on the prior to the crash as well.

Did he gas it mid-corner, don't know, did he brake mid-corner, don't know. Was he going fast for conditions, if the video is representing actual time and speed, it seems to be faster than I would choose to take the corner.

Was it the tires? I doubt it, primarily due to the modest lean angle.

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commonground
Male Standard Member
155 Posts


Windsor, PA
USA

Yamaha

V Star 1300

Posted - 08/19/2016 :  8:50 AM
After going back and reviewing the video several times I see that the speedometer was indicating 72 kph at the time of the incident.

The broken pavement is where the bike came to rest, not at the drop point.

Yes, I believe traction was a factor.

Determining lean angle with a helmet cam looking down on the bike, is from a very poor perspective.

I too, take the video as presented.




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