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Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion
Accidents vs Rider Errors (Causation)
James R. Davis
* Today *  8:44 AM
That's pretty funny - bravo.

However, you provided an excellent point that demonstrates why the jury must assess the relative contribution values for both the defendant and the plaintiff. If, for example, in the case you presented, the jury found that proper usage of brakes or change of path could have resulted in the avoidance of the collision entirely, then your facts could result in the motorcyclist being held primarily responsible for it.

Juries have to be instructed very precisely as to their responsibilities. A jury member who decides that had the motorcyclist not gotten out of bed that morning there would not have been a collision makes the system a sham. The judge would not allow that to happen by providing proper jury instructions.

Again, to your facts...if doing both resulted in the loss of control of the motorcycle, he would be assessed as having contributed more to the causation than if he had remained in control.

Each case is unique and demonstrates why, if you need a lawyer, you want one who knows and understands motorcycling.

All this talk about comparative amounts of contributed negligence also highlights that each state has its own rules. In some states, for example, comparative negligence rules specify that compensation is absolutely determined by percentage. Others, more than half, specify that there is a threshold value (typically 51%) such that if the plaintiff contributed at least that amount, the case is simply lost - no compensation at all.
Accidents vs Rider Errors (Causation)
Eagle Six
* Today *  7:37 AM
"you could have applied your brakes (aggressively) or you could have changed your path of travel (aggressively), but not both at the same time." If you DID do both at the same time, would that then be, "you CONTRIBUTED causatively to the collision but you DIDN'T CAUSE IT." ?

Accidents vs Rider Errors (Causation)
James R. Davis
07/03/2022  8:07 AM
It probably will not surprise you to know that attorneys are word smiths. They very carefully choose the words they use when arguing their cases.

It also should not surprise you to know that plaintiff attorneys choose to use the words "Rider Error" while defense attorneys prefer "Accident" when describing the same events.

My perspective:

Very few motorcycle accidents are actually accidents (or Acts of God). Instead, they are planned, deliberate activities, except for the crash. When a curve in the roadway is posted with a 35 MPH speed limit sign and a motorcyclist elects to try to take it at 70 MPH, then when his motorcycle tires lose traction and he crashes, that was a planned and deliberate action, except for the crash. This would be an example of rider error, not an accident.

When a motorcyclist travels 15 MPH over the posted speed limit, it is incontrovertibly a planned and deliberate choice on the part of the motorcyclist. Should a collision occur as a result of that excess speed, that is also an example of rider error instead of an accident.

Guess what else results from choosing to use the words "rider error" instead of "accident". A compelling argument for also using the words "reckless" and "negligence". Those words are legal landmines that can cost you both money and freedom.

This is a much bigger topic than it first appears to be. Civil trials attempt to determine causation - who or what caused an incident of damage or injury.

In the 43 civil trials I've worked only TWO found that the motorcyclist did not contribute to the cause of the incident while all the rest found that the motorcyclist contributed, in part, to the incident.

Let me be clear about that. If you are riding on a road and an 18-wheeler makes a left turn in front of you and a collision occurs, you had two possibilities to avoid that collision: you could have applied your brakes (aggressively) or you could have changed your path of travel (aggressively), but not both at the same time. If, instead of doing either, you froze at your controls and did nothing, you CONTRIBUTED causatively to the collision but you DIDN'T CAUSE IT.

The jury would be tasked to determine what percentage of all the causative factors you contributed. That percentage determines the outcome of the trial.

Your feedback is welcome.
Motorcycle Safety / Trip Reports
66 @ 66
Eagle Six
07/01/2022  9:59 AM
Thank You for the ride report Mikey, it was enjoyable to read and good to hear your adventure was safe and you returned with a bunch of great memories.

66 @ 66
Mikeydude
06/30/2022  10:51 AM
Well - here's the big take away... At my age and condition, as long as I take care of myself along the ride, and prepare myself for the ride, it's do-able. This ride was everything I hoped it would be. Except that it ended way too soon.

James warned me there would be rain, and there was rain - even though we never felt a drop... lol, it sure messed with the roads. And even though we made direction maps it was still important to have GPS with us... just in case.

There was a single bad experience on the entire trip. It was with a motel owner that had a problem with bikers. He ultimately asked us to leave and escorted us off of the property. This was all over a parking spot of all things. We stayed at a different motel and saved $40 in the process.

But we met so many really cool people from all over the world. There was a guy from Sweden riding with a guy from Dallas. We met a couple that were traveling the entire route... She was from Dallas, he was from England. We kept bumping into them in different towns. Very memorable people. And there was the guy traveling with his daughter. He rides 66 every year - with a different daughter. They are from Los Angeles. Then the old farmer, the old rancher in the steak-house, the Native-American woman that owned the tiny gas station... They were all great.

We left a gas station and rode about 100 miles, and Pam realized she left her wallet at that stop. We called them and a sweet lady named Saraih found it, boxed it up and mailed it to us. She went out of her way to do something that nice. And there was the biker club that was stopped at a gas station in the heat... They invited us to hang out in the beer cooler with them. Great idea!!! So was putting our helmets in the ice coolers when we stopped. Whoever came up with that in the tips needs a raise!

The Camelbaks were so important, especially on the way home. We hit the extreme temperatures then. We went through Crowell - the Evening News said it was 110 degrees there that day. Whoa - I was willing to cancel if the temps were going to be over 93? The Texas roads were flat and miles and miles of nothing. No trees anywhere to even stop and grab some shade. But it really wasn't that terrible with the ice bags on our backs.

We accomplished everything we set out to do with the exception of 17 miles of original roadway. On Google Maps the Street View did not map that section, so the only view we had of the roadway was from satellite, and it looked like a lot of dirt. It had rained the night before and I was concerned about getting several miles into the road and hitting impassible mud and having to turn around. This was in Glen Rio... a Ghost Town. We elected to follow I-40 for that section. Better safe than sorry.

The only "break down" was when I lost a turn signal lens somewhere. I think it wanted to stay in New Mexico more than come back to Texas.

I hope you can get some insight to the things we had to overcome and find a lesson from our travels. If it were not for this site and the wisdom of the people here there could have been issues. I give my thanks for all I've learned here.

Now - Please stand by for the next adventure. We are planning a shorter expedition - this time to San Antonio... The plan is to visit China Grove (Doobie Bros) and La Grange (ZZ Top)... I found the location of the original Chicken Ranch too - PHOTO OP!!! Then we plan to stop by the gas station from the movie Texas Chainsaw Massacre and have some BBQ. They have cabins there now so it would be cool to stay over one night.

Thanks you guy!!!
Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion
Totaled - what does that mean?
James R. Davis
06/29/2022  8:43 AM
Have you ever seen the results of an accident where the insurance company declared that the wrecked vehicle was 'totaled' when you saw what appeared to be only superficial damage?

I mean, say a motorcycle's front-end was crushed but the rest of the motorcycle was virtually pristine? That engine and body and luggage and upholstery was like new after the accident. Surely you wouldn't consider it 'totaled' yet the insurance company does.

Why?

Insurance companies are like any other business, trying to make a profit. If, after evaluating the cost to repair a vehicle they conclude that it will cost more than the vehicle was worth at the time of the accident, that vehicle has been totaled. They are right - from their perspective. I assure you that they do not credit sentimental value in their calculations.

While I'm in no position to speak for or against insurance company methods, I have had opportunity to look behind the scenes and observe what at least one such company goes through to determine what their liability is following an accident. I was amazed to see the documentation and effort put into determining (apparently, at least to me, all in good faith) what their liability was.

Don't forget, your policy may have a co-pay or deduction clause to it. That, too, in my opinion, is fair.

Motorcycle Safety / Trip Reports
66 @ 66
Mikeydude
06/28/2022  1:09 PM
Almost every town we went through had some old attraction. Canute has a giant suit of armor holding it's Route 66 sign. Mclean has the first Philips 66 in Texas, and the remnants of the Graham Hotel. There were tons of old, restored or partially restored filling stations. There were also a lot of old dead filling stations. You can tell from the shape of the buildings what they were. Same with some old diners, and the many motels. It would have been really neat to see it when it was still alive.

A couple of the towns had made a decision to embrace the Route 66 legacy... Like Shamrock, Texas. They had a few old motels that were still operating, and they have the U-Drop Inn, which used to be The Tower Inn and Gas (Elvis ate here - lol). This is extremely cool. It was used in the movie Cars as Ramones. At night it's all lit up with neon, just like the old days. Quite a sight. And the people are so nice. The owner saw we were taking pictures of all the lights and he turned on the interior lights for a better view.

And Tucumcari, New Mexico. They have many motels and restaraunts from the old days, and they light up the night with all the neon.

When we got up the morning when we stayed in Shamrock there were severe storms on the way again. 35 miles north of town was the crossroads that were in the movie Castaway, with Tom Hanks. It was on my agenda to go there and take some pics. I mean, we're that close - we have to, right? It was a gamble, but I took it anyway. We were headed straight into the storms so it was a race to see if we could get there and get back before we got hit. Turns out the storms were headed diagonally towards the area and only grazed the eastern part of town. We made it and didn't get a single drop.

The toughest part of this entire trip was remaining flexible. There were things we wanted to experience, but situations didn't allow it simply because we were on the bike. But we still accomplished most of what we wanted without compromising our safety. Another James wisdom.
Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion
Just finished a criminal case - pay attention!
Eagle Six
06/26/2022  9:25 AM
Thank You James for the report, it is important information.

The justice system doesn't always deliver justice!
Just finished a criminal case - pay attention!
James R. Davis
06/25/2022  11:29 AM
Though I've worked as an expert witness (Motorcycle Safety and Dynamics) in 42 civil cases, I just finished working my fist criminal case. I learned a great deal in the process, virtually none of it healthy or satisfying.

First, let me setup a learning experience for you--

You are driving an SUV on a public road and approach a signaled intersection where your light is red. You stop and wait for the light to change to green. It doesn't. You wait through three full signal changes (all the other signal lights are working. But yours remains red throughout).

What do you do?

My advice is simple: assume the failing signal light is a blinking red light instead of a solidly on red light. In other words, after stopping at the intersection, make an extra effort to see if there are any threats to you ALL AROUND! Seeing none, carefully cross the intersection but remain vigilant.

Guess what can happen to you if you do that, however. You can be charged with MANSLAUGHTER and sent to jail for two years!!!!

Well, not automatically, of course.

See, if the speed limit for the cross traffic is 50 MPH and there is a motorcycle driving toward that intersection from your right is moving at 70 MPH, you probably either wont see it if it is far enough away, or you wont think of it as a threat because you will consider it too far away to reach you while you are in the intersection. There were absolutely no other vehicles in or near the intersection and it was daylight without any visibility obstructions. The motorcycle was nearly 500 feet away when you decide to ease across the intersection when you have seen that the cross traffic signal was also red. (By the way, all of this was caught on camera.)

Recklessness and negligent behavior is when you PURPOSELY DISREGARD A THREAT YOU ARE AWARE OF. Since you have no knowledge of a threat posed by that motorcycle, you can't be found to have purposely disregarded it. Well, unless.

That speeding motorcycle is so far away from you that it's clear that it could slow or stop or change its path of travel long before colliding with you. But unknown to you, that motorcycle rider was reading a text message on his cellphone while speeding along at 70 MPH. He doesn't happen to notice that you are crossing the intersection. Some would call that being inattentive or distracted.

As it turns out, that motorcyclist doesn't notice you until 1/2 second before he collides with your vehicle (which is moving at 22 MPH) and makes absolutely no effort to avoid the collision. He's ejected from his bike and soon thereafter dies while laying on the roadway.

Guess who gets charged with MANSLAUGHTER while 'running a red light'?

Oh, did I mention that the motorcyclist who died was an OFF DUTY motorcycle policeman? Think maybe that had something to do with you on your way to do two years in prison?

Just to be clear--I'm not suggesting the police had anything to do with this. I'm 'police family', meaning my father was a homicide detective. I'm saying that a District Attorney and a jury made a bad call.

Riding motorcycles is dangerous - not just for you.
Motorcycle Safety / Trip Reports
66 @ 66
Mikeydude
06/24/2022  11:44 AM
Now- as for the report... We left Ft Worth and it was expected to be HOT. Mid to upper 90s. That was my main concern. We managed to stay just ahead of the heat. It was hot, but not as hot as it was to our south. I made it a point to make lots of stops, and the Camelbaks were a huge benefit. I drank at least 4 liters on the way up. We filled them with ice and they kept a cold spot in the middle of our backs. Not super cooling, but it all helps, right? I was concerned that heat and fatigue would be an issue for me at my age and medical status, but I felt great!

When I mapped out this route I called the gas stations at the planned refueling points to make sure they had Premium gas. I have come across some that only sell regular (83) or mid-grade (89). My scoot calls for at least 92. The word Premium means different things to those people in Oklahoma. They sell non-ethanol gas, and they call that premium. So there were a few times where I had to go hunting for "high octane" gas. Something I didn't think much about til then.

The weather forecasts called for hot and dry along the entire route, but James advised me that he has always gotten rained on, even when it wasn't supposed to. Well it rained over night. A real gully washer. We didn't get a drop on us during the ride, but it rained--- a lot.

As I mentioned, we were riding the Old Road, not the Interstate, and it follows the terrain. It curves and moves with the land where the Interstate just cuts straight through. By the time we left El Reno the 2nd morning - after the massive storm that rained, hailed and even had a tornado - the roads were dry, and it was very cool. Extra shirt cool. As we were tooling along, one long section of the road was over rolling hills. And at the bottom of every one of these hills was a low water crossing. There was so much rain that these crossings had flooded during the night. They were dry enough now except for a layer of that slick gooey red mud. Dangerous stuff. Extremely slippery. So we had to slow way down and be extra careful. It was a non-issue, because of the tactics I've learned here, but it could have been a real disaster. We eventually made it through to more stable terrain and it was all good.

Point is - expect the unexpected.
66 @ 66
Mikeydude
06/23/2022  2:58 PM
Here we go... I started to write a play by play and describe all the events and experiences we had, then I realized that 1) it was too extensive, and 2) this ride was more than about the diners, gas stations and old motels that we saw. As I went through all the pictures we took I realized that Route 66, as a road, is not much different than many of the country/back roads that I ride all the time. Had I not had the label of Route 66, this road was just more of the same scenery I ride for.

But there is one difference. As soon as you get on it - not I-40 but the real Mother Road - there is a feeling that comes over you. It's so hard to explain, but it was almost overwhelming. Somehow the road felt different. There was a history, a story you could feel - not all of it good, but it was the real deal.

On the actual Route itself we rode through the following towns: El Reno, Bridgeport, Hydro, Weatherford, Clinton, Foss, Canute, Elk City, Sayre, Hext, Erick, Texola, Shamrock, Long Dry Creek, McLean, Alanreed, Groom, Panhandle, Amarillo, Bushland, Wildorado, Vega, Adrian, Glen Rio, San Jon, Cedar Hill, Quay and Tucumcari.

A lot of these towns are bypassed by the interstate, so they are remnants. 50-80% boarded up and closed businesses. But there are people still living there - and they are the nicest folks I've come across in a long time. We met one guy - he said he was 95 years old - who said he lived there his entire life. We stood there and talked for a good 20 minutes. He survived the Dust Bowl, and the Great California Migration. He said they farm. That's all - just farm. Farm for food and now wind farms.

Some of these towns are just ghost towns. There's nobody there - just collapsing old buildings, and sign remnants where you could sort of make out this cafe or that gas station. And many old abandoned homes. And an old, tired and worn Route. I couldn't help but wonder if these people left because of the dust, or the Interstate.

On the route we followed I tried to keep us on the old original Route, where it still existed. There's a lot of it still there - and even some areas with the original pavement. Most of the original pavement parts were chopped off by the Interstate crossing it, and it just stopped on one side and continued on the other side. It was challenging to map it and challenging to stay on the old road, but we did it.
Motorcycle Safety / Sharing of Lessons Learned
Minor crash in the twisties...
Eagle Six
06/21/2022  5:00 PM
Too much of a good thing can turn it bad! If we are taking a corner that is flat, open, clear where nothing big enough to trip us up will jump out and going the speed limit in clear weather conditions, there is little risk something bad is going to challenge us.

I have very few of those type corner in the countryside where I ride. Properly performed trail braking provides the extra safety edge in the event something that can harm us does present us with a challenge.

On the street if we are coming into a corner hot and hard brake on the approach and trail off the brakes, we are going to fast. A spirited ride isn't going so fast that we approach the corner hot. If we are in that 5-20 mph over category most of the braking is still done during the approach, but saving that last 10% of braking and smoothly trailing off, keeping the pads in contact will help avoid upsetting the geometry of the bike as we turn in and we are covering the brakes ready in the event we need to slow or stop.

There is nothing wrong about getting all the braking done early and put-putting around a corner. After all, taking a corner too slow is rarely an issue. And, I prefer too slow to those who treat our public road as if they are their private race track!

For me I prefer trail braking. Not on every corner, but most and most of the time my pillion can't even feel me braking. I load the tire before working the tire. Smooth brake on, smooth brake off.
Minor crash in the twisties...
scottrnelson
06/18/2022  7:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JanK

But I also tend to trail brake into turns, which in itself is fine, however, I have an unfortunate habit of releasing the brake too quickly, not smoothly enough, and I can sometimes feel the front end bounce a bit. I was thinking about this habit on the ride that day and thinking that I need to get rid of it and for some time I actively practiced a smooth release of the brake. But, as always with these sorts of "exercises", it's difficult not to slip into old habits.
A lot of riders push trail braking as THE way to ride on a twisty road, but I'm totally against it from a safety point of view. Yes, you need to know how to use the brakes while in a turn, but I consider it to be a bad habit to do it all the time.

My goal is to have all braking done before the turn starts and to get lightly on the throttle as soon as I lean the bike into the turn. We're talking about only enough throttle to keep the top of the chain tight, but not really accelerating until the turn opens up at the end. If I can get lightly on the throttle at the beginning, it means that I've judged the corner speed correctly. If I have to do more braking once the turn starts, I misjudged the corner, but I can still safely slow some more if I need to. I probably needed a full year to change the habit of trail braking to this new technique, but it was worth it.

I made this change to my riding nearly two decades ago after reading various authors, including James Davis (here), David L Hough (Proficient Motorcycling), and Lee Parks (Total Control). If your goal is to be as safe as possible while still enjoying twisty roads, rather than being the fastest bike on the road, you might want to consider changing your cornering technique.
Minor crash in the twisties...
JanK
06/17/2022  1:32 PM
Yes, this was the direction I rode. And yes, I think the front washed out quite early. I remained on the asphalt and fell on my left side. The bike stayed far enough from the guardrail that I could pick it up without dragging it away. It ended up about half way through the corner.

As far as the tires are concerned: I still think that they are not good. I have since replaced them with Metzeller Roadtec 01 SE, which are like night and day.

But since then I realised, after thinking long and hard about the crash, that I was also to blame. Obviously, I outrode the tires that I knew were not very good.

But I also tend to trail brake into turns, which in itself is fine, however, I have an unfortunate habit of releasing the brake too quickly, not smoothly enough, and I can sometimes feel the front end bounce a bit. I was thinking about this habit on the ride that day and thinking that I need to get rid of it and for some time I actively practiced a smooth release of the brake. But, as always with these sorts of "exercises", it's difficult not to slip into old habits.

So what I think also happened is that I let got of the brake too quickly, the forks extended too quickly, pushed the front wheel away and onto the cold shoulder, which caused the front to wash out.
Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion
66 at 66
Mikeydude
06/13/2022  10:56 AM
Yay! We made it back with no incidents to report. It was an incredible trip and there is so much to tell about. I will post the fun details in the Trip Report forum, but for now I just want to send a huge thank you to James for all I've learned from this forum. The safety tips and general common sense things I've gotten over the years here made this such a great adventure.

The worse thing to happen was I lost a turn signal lens somewhere between Tucumcari, New Mexico and Plainview, Texas. I think it enjoyed the area so much that it just decided to stay there... lol. We got rain 3 out of the first 4 days, and not a drop on us (lots of slimey red mud though - very dangerous stuff). We had a couple mornings of riding in the un-expected upper 50s and lower 60s... that was a little cool. And we even survived riding through Crowell, Texas with a temperature of 110 degrees.

New personal safety tip - When it gets really hot like it did in Crowell, I'm sure you've seen the tip about putting your helmet in the ice cooler at the gas station. We did that at most stops - but we also stopped at a gas station that had a walk in beer cooler. We went in there for a while and cooled down really fast!

Thanks James!!!
66 at 66
Eagle Six
06/08/2022  12:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mikeydude

Thanks James... I will.



Rubber Side Down, enjoy the fun, and hope the weather holds for you. Sounds like a great trip!

Best Regards....George
Motorcycle Safety / Sharing of Lessons Learned
Minor crash in the twisties...
Eagle Six
06/08/2022  12:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JanK

Well, this forum has been awfully quiet for some time now. Time to add another report.

I think I got bitten by the Metzeller Z8 tyres that I am looking forward to replacing. The problem with these tires - OEM on BMW R1250R and other similar BMW motorcycles - is that they need to be really hot to work properly. If they are, they're OK and exceed my comfort zone (i.e., I cannot outride them). When colder, they are skittish in corners, the front tends to slide a bit before catching up and the rear definitely needs a bit to settle down. A week ago I rode in rain on a 10C slick alpine road and they were a disaster!

Anyway, yesterday I was riding in the twisties in our local Alps. The weather was fine and sunny, but the temperature was 20C and there was quite a stiff wind. On one stop I noticed that, after 10 minutes of taking a break, drinking some water, enjoying the sights... the tires cooled down enough for it to be noticable - they became skittish in the corners, just as they are when you start riding, only less intensely. But after a few minutes of spirited riding, they started gripping again.

But after the last stop I forgot about that and started riding hard right away. In the first hairpin https://goo.gl/maps/myerECXZc4VXCkic9 the front tire just washed out and I lowsided... The picture in Google Maps is 9 years old and in the meanwhile the road had been repaved with nice, grippy, still black asphalt. There was no gravel or any contamination on the road. The tire just let go... Of course, as I said, I was riding hard, but not harder that all day, including on slicker asphalt.

The motorcycle was OK. The cylinder heads are protected by MachineArt X-Head cover protectors and the paralever is protected by the SW-Motech slider. These were the only two points of contact and the motorcycle is otherwise undamaged.

My Alpinestars TechAir 5 airbag went off and the only really painful spot is where I landed on my left elbow and it must have "penetrated" the air cushion and hurt the ribs (but that hurts quite a bit :(). So, all in all I got off lightly.

After the crash I finished the ride to Kranjska Gora, then climbed over another pass, Wuerzenpass, then rode home on the highway. The additional pass was becasue the "local" Louis store is in Villach and, unfortunately, the Alpinestars airbag (bought from Louis) needs to be checked out by the manufacturer if it goes off, so I left it at the store, where they said that it will not be back before 16th of June.

I'm debating with myself whether to switch to a tethered airbag, where you can simply replace the cartridge. But I'm not sure it would have gone off or gone off early enough, since I remained mostly very near the bike, whereas I remember that the airbag inflating the moment that the bike started skidding from underneath me, so the TechAir will most likely stay.



Jan, Thank You for the report. Good to hear you and the bike incurred little damage. I assume you were riding in the direct of the Google Map view you provided. Would also assume the front washed early in the turn in. So also would assume you avoided contact with the guard rail. Are any of my assumptions correct?

I have no experience with Metzeller tires, but the information you provide about the Z8's should be useful to those considering them.

Best Regards.....George
Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion
66 at 66
Mikeydude
06/04/2022  8:13 PM
Thanks James... I will.
66 at 66
James R. Davis
06/04/2022  5:53 PM
Have a safe trip and come back to tell us all about it.
66 at 66
Mikeydude
06/04/2022  5:03 PM
Alrighty then - we set sail on Monday morning. We have camelbaks, extra clothes, house is secured, and we have ground control to check up on us. Phones, chargers and emergency power pods... GPS tracking and detailed maps. My biggest concern is the heat. I have lotsa stops planned to cool off. I can't think of anything I may have forgotten. I've read through the safety tips a few times again just for reminders. Thanks James for all those! I tell ya what - it's not the same as when I was in my 20s.

Here's to gettin' some kix!
Motorcycle Crash Causation Study--NTSB recommendations
AlexAlex
05/26/2022  6:09 AM
Thank you Dan for your time and for so much useful information, especially since I myself had an accident not too long ago because I thought I had the best brake pads for harley davidson touring but it turned out not and they really let me down at 50 miles.
Motorcycle Safety / Sharing of Lessons Learned
Minor crash in the twisties...
JanK
05/20/2022  6:14 AM
Well, this forum has been awfully quiet for some time now. Time to add another report.

I think I got bitten by the Metzeller Z8 tyres that I am looking forward to replacing. The problem with these tires - OEM on BMW R1250R and other similar BMW motorcycles - is that they need to be really hot to work properly. If they are, they're OK and exceed my comfort zone (i.e., I cannot outride them). When colder, they are skittish in corners, the front tends to slide a bit before catching up and the rear definitely needs a bit to settle down. A week ago I rode in rain on a 10C slick alpine road and they were a disaster!

Anyway, yesterday I was riding in the twisties in our local Alps. The weather was fine and sunny, but the temperature was 20C and there was quite a stiff wind. On one stop I noticed that, after 10 minutes of taking a break, drinking some water, enjoying the sights... the tires cooled down enough for it to be noticable - they became skittish in the corners, just as they are when you start riding, only less intensely. But after a few minutes of spirited riding, they started gripping again.

But after the last stop I forgot about that and started riding hard right away. In the first hairpin https://goo.gl/maps/myerECXZc4VXCkic9 the front tire just washed out and I lowsided... The picture in Google Maps is 9 years old and in the meanwhile the road had been repaved with nice, grippy, still black asphalt. There was no gravel or any contamination on the road. The tire just let go... Of course, as I said, I was riding hard, but not harder that all day, including on slicker asphalt.

The motorcycle was OK. The cylinder heads are protected by MachineArt X-Head cover protectors and the paralever is protected by the SW-Motech slider. These were the only two points of contact and the motorcycle is otherwise undamaged.

My Alpinestars TechAir 5 airbag went off and the only really painful spot is where I landed on my left elbow and it must have "penetrated" the air cushion and hurt the ribs (but that hurts quite a bit :(). So, all in all I got off lightly.

After the crash I finished the ride to Kranjska Gora, then climbed over another pass, Wuerzenpass, then rode home on the highway. The additional pass was becasue the "local" Louis store is in Villach and, unfortunately, the Alpinestars airbag (bought from Louis) needs to be checked out by the manufacturer if it goes off, so I left it at the store, where they said that it will not be back before 16th of June.

I'm debating with myself whether to switch to a tethered airbag, where you can simply replace the cartridge. But I'm not sure it would have gone off or gone off early enough, since I remained mostly very near the bike, whereas I remember that the airbag inflating the moment that the bike started skidding from underneath me, so the TechAir will most likely stay.
Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion
66 at 66
scottrnelson
05/01/2022  10:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mikeydude

My wife worked for Marriott for 30 years so we can stay there free, but I'd much rather find the cool little 'historic' motels.

I've stayed in plenty of historic motels and I would pick Marriott every time if I didn't have to pay their higher prices. But you do what sounds best for you.


Last February I went to Moab, UT and stayed in a new Marriott hotel for not much over $100 a night. It was very nice. I was in Moab again this past week and that same place wanted $400. We stayed in a place that was "only" $200 a night for two nights, and two more nights 50 miles north in Green River that was in the low $100 range to save a few bucks.
66 at 66
Mikeydude
04/30/2022  8:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by scottrnelson

Looks like a bunch of easy days to me.

Have you made reservations to stay at each destination on the day you should get there?



Thanks Scott - Not yet. I'm still scoping out all the cool places like the Route 66 Inn. My wife worked for Marriott for 30 years so we can stay there free, but I'd much rather find the cool little 'historic' motels. I gotta find them first and see which ones look more appropriate for the ride.

I'll most likely get the bike in next week for a physical. Planning on leaving on June 6... It'll be 66@66on6/6... lol.

I will be doing this 2 up with no chase vehicles. I'll be filing a detailed flight plan with people here and I hope to use one of those satellite tracking apps so I can be found if needed.

Any tips I might have overlooked?
66 at 66
scottrnelson
04/30/2022  7:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mikeydude

Please lemme know your thoughts.

Looks like a bunch of easy days to me.

Have you made reservations to stay at each destination on the day you should get there?

When I've done longer trips in the past (in a car, not on a bike) I just kept going until it seemed about right a bit later in the afternoon, then found a place to stay. Don't expect that to work on a Friday or Saturday night though. I've slept in the car more than once on a Saturday night when there was nothing available for 50 miles.

Now go do it and report back.
66 at 66
Mikeydude
04/30/2022  3:58 PM
Here's what my map looks like broken down by day... Please lemme know your thoughts.

These times and distances are listed by Google Maps. Not too sure of the accuracy of the travel times. The larger map shows 1100 total miles... This one adds up to 942 total miles. I'm not sure where the trouble lies.

Day One: Ft Worth, Texas to El Reno, Oklahoma - 211 Miles - 4 hours.

Day Two: Shamrock, Texas - 141 Miles - 2 hours 21 minutes.

Day 3: Adrien, Oklahoma - (through Amarillo) Lotsa sight seeing on this leg - 141 Miles - 2 hours 7 minutes.

Day Four: Santa Rosa, New Mexico - 123 Miles - 2 hours 12 minutes.

Day Five: Lubbock, Texas - 205 Miles - 3 hours 23 minutes (Not sure why this is so long travel time).

Day Six: Jacksboro Texas - 230 Miles - 3 hours 27 minutes.

Day Seven: Back Home - 56 Miles - 1 hour.

This leaves me 2 days for unexpected stuff.

Riding skills where I'm getting a bit rusty
hurdlinda939
04/19/2022  3:09 AM
I agree with you. It's hard to return back on riding when you've been not doing it for a long time.
montgomery garage flooring
66 at 66
flyignron
03/28/2022  8:12 AM
Now you go through saint looey
Joplin, missouri,
And oklahoma city is mighty pretty.
You see amarillo,
Gallup, new mexico,
Flagstaff, arizona.
Don't forget winona,
Kingman, barstow, san bernandino.
66 at 66
Mikeydude
03/16/2022  7:04 PM
Oh - I hear ya on the motel thing. I figured on the little Route 66 Motels as part of the journey. I'll be calling before we leave to make sure there's accommodations.

I plan on scoping out Oklahoma and New Mexico laws as well before I go. Right now the plan is to leave on a Monday and be back by the following week Tuesday. It may go faster than that, but I figured that would give us lotsa time to take it easy. I mean, it's probably a once in a lifetime ride so I don't want to hurry through it.

Do y'all bring anything special in the way of tools? I have my little Harley kit and a lot of 100lb zip ties. Those are miracle workers (ask me how I know that one... lol). It has screw drivers, a few combination wrenches, hex and star keys, pliers and crescent wrenches. It's more than a windshield or fork bag, but not a lot by any means. I also have a good knife.

66 at 66
scottrnelson
03/16/2022  6:42 PM
I would say to try not to exceed 300 miles in a day, but it sounds like you already have that part worked out.

When I'm on a road that I really like, I tend to not want to stop, so make sure you stop frequently.

I like just finding a motel when I get to the point when I'm ready to stop for the day. But I've learned the hard way to make sure to have a reservation for Friday and Saturday nights. Nothing quite like looking for a room when it's late and there is absolutely nothing within 50 miles.
66 at 66
Mikeydude
03/16/2022  5:30 PM
Thank you James - there is a lot of my thoughts in there. The whole idea of this ride is to see it all - the ghost towns, Cadillac Ranch, Midway, tiny dust bowl towns... I thought not too much more than 100-150 miles a day. Except for the ride home because of the long distance and no real points of interest.

I'm not too worried about the rain - I've been there done that... my concerns would be the severe stuff that Oklahoma and the Panhandle are notorious for - hail and winds/tornadoes.

We ride up to the Oklahoma border all the time, and I figured riding on to Oklahoma City is about the same distance as riding back home so no big deal.

I'm definitely NOT going for endurance of any kind. That's why we're allowing several days.

I have small saddle bags but nothing like a tour pack or fender trunk. I planned on a leather backpack we have that can be bungee'd onto the backrest. Our helmets have H2H communicators in them and bluetooth connections to the phones. I will have 1st aid, lotsa water, phone chargers, rain stuff... Not a lotta extras tho.

As for safety that's always my priority - That's why I'm here first. I wanna make sure I don't overlook anything.
66 at 66
James R. Davis
03/16/2022  4:21 PM
Every trip like that I've been on has been different in almost every way. Sure the mileage is an easy variable, but I assure you that without fail the weather NEVER cooperates fully. In fact, without exception, every trip involved some riding in the rain. Every one!

Take each day as being meaningful. 300 miles is actually a long day ride. A little less with stops along the way - not just to fuel up or eat, but to explore. Take the time to see why people live there and what is special about the location. Something is!

If weather is not comfortable for some reason, find a place to stay the night, and don't regret it. Being able to enjoy the next day's ride (and the rest of your life) makes a lot of sense. The only real timetable you need to maintain is a safe and enjoyable one - no tests (endurance, for example) should be planned or allowed for. Safety first, the ride second.

66 at 66
Mikeydude
03/16/2022  3:24 PM
Hey guys - I turn 66 this year. One of my bucket list items is to ride some of Route 66, and I thought the 66 at 66 idea was like an omen or something... lol. I have mapped out a good chunk of the ride and it seems doable for me. I will go from DFW to Oklahoma City, then onto shorter rides with stops along the way to check out the history. I want to avoid the interstate as much as possible and stay on the historic route. I plan to follow this across the Texas Panhandle and end the 66 portion somewhere in New Mexico. Possibly go to Roswell and catch highway 380 back to DFW. I'm planning a no hurry trip and allowing 5-7 days. Probably late May to get the best weather and least heat. The longest jag of the ride will be the ride home across Texas - mostly all interstate.

I have done road trips in the past, but they were many years ago and things change -- like age... lol.

Here's what I'd like to discuss - you guys have so much experience I hope for some pointers and educated warnings.

I'm on a 2003 Harley Dyna with around 35,000 miles on it - NOT a large cruiser by any means, but I've done many 200-250 mile day rides on it with no problems. I plan to put it in the shop before I leave and make sure it's in great shape. I keep it well maintained anyway.

I hope to have some friends follow along in a cage, but it may or may not happen - you know how that goes. I will probably be 2 up with the wifey on the back.

I plan plenty of stops on the route will have it mapped out in detail before we go.

You guys that have done a lot of road trips, what can you give me to prepare and look forward to? Things like fatigue levels on day 4 or 5, etc...

Thanks!
Riding skills where I'm getting a bit rusty
Sandy76
02/15/2022  12:45 AM
I always love riding and I love to do it together with my friends at Handyman Greenville. But every winter we can't ride because we can't resist the freezing weather.
Motorcycle Safety / Technical/Maintenance
Tires - how much time is too much
travismhood
02/09/2022  1:53 PM
Recommended expiration date is six years from manufacturing. In the USA, the year is the last two digits of the DOT number. You can double that to twelve without me trying to talk you out of it.
Motorcycle Safety / Campfire chat
Another story published!
James R. Davis
12/25/2021  2:56 PM
Welcome to the site.

It amazes me to realize that people seem to think that titles are so important. Like credentials, titles are specific and ephemeral.

I've been a programmer for over 60 years. I've been writing for just as long. I've ridden motorcycles for almost as long.

My titles have included:
Customer Engineer for IBM
Assistant to a Nobel Laureate modeling US Econometrics
Owner of a restaurant/lounge
Seat on a commodities exchange
Product Manager for IBM
Vice President for a national Brokerage
President for a regional brokerage
Certified MSF Instructor
Executive-Vice-President-Finance for an Oil & Gas company\
Director for a system integration company
Bitcoin Investor
Chairman of the board for a software company

Which of those is defining of me?

I imagine that you meant to say 'awareness' instead of 'conscious'. If so, I agree.

Of the dozens of motorcycle related law suits in which I've been asked to
opine as to cause, only ONE involved a rider who did not contribute at least one rider error. (Contributing an error is NOT the same as saying caused an accident.)
Another story published!
Andrewler
12/25/2021  11:06 AM
Are you a writer? Or are you a motorcycle safety expert? I have also witnessed many accidents between motorbikes and other vehicles while traveling on the road. I think, it depends on the consciousness of the driver. What do you think?
Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion
How dangerous are we to ourselves?
colinknoxquv
12/20/2021  4:38 AM
Unfortunately, now you should learn everything by yourself, as we have access to the internet which has answers to all our questions. Nobody wants to tell you all the secrets, it is kind of absurd, especially when that's their responsibility. This is why I always take precautions and look for the information by myself. For example, recently I have found out that I can register my bike in my state database that increases the chances of recovery in case my bike is theft. I have found out about this here https://simplebikeinsurance.com/can...bike-online/
R.I.P. DataDan
TooManyHobbies
11/09/2021  1:52 PM
Dan's work is archived over on the Bay Area Riders Forum:

https://bayarearidersforum.com/foru...ay.php?f=107

Most of us don't feel the loss as his family does, but still, the community has lost a passionate and knowledgeable member. Dan took the time to give me the tips I needed to start working with the FARS. Seeing this really made me sad.
R.I.P. DataDan
bachman1961
11/01/2021  7:09 PM
Sad news.
Like previous comments, very much got my information and compass heading from trustworthy facts and stats here. Thankful for this site, James and many others that guard against false information. Dan presented reams of stats that were easily read and interpreted making the grim reminders easier to understand. R I P







Motorcycle Safety / Campfire chat
Another story published!
James R. Davis
10/25/2021  6:11 PM
I write and testify mostly about motorcycle incidents involving injury or death. That's what a Motorcycle Safety expert witness does.

But that's not all! Sometimes I write fiction, sometimes about economics, and sometimes I write science fiction.

In other words, sometimes I need to be Released from Reality! (Okay, that's a shameless plug. My story is titled "Immaculate Misconception".)

Check it out and let me know what you think.

Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion
R.I.P. DataDan
Mikeydude
09/12/2021  11:59 AM
Oh wow- His posts were an important contribution to my education. I'm sorry to hear of his passing. My prayers and condolences to his family.
R.I.P. DataDan
onthebeach
09/12/2021  9:18 AM
I am sorry to hear that news. I found his well-researched posts to be informative. I think I would have enjoyed a sit down chat with him. He will be missed.

- Dale
R.I.P. DataDan
James R. Davis
09/12/2021  9:04 AM
A valuable contributor wherever he went.

We had several in-depth email exchanges where he helped me with data retrievals.

R.I.P.
R.I.P. DataDan
Eagle Six
09/12/2021  7:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by scottrnelson

I just learned that DataDan passed away August 24. Don't have additional details. He will be missed at all of the motorcycle forums that he participated in.



Thank You Scott for the update, sad and I will miss him. Condolences to his family.
R.I.P. DataDan
scottrnelson
09/12/2021  6:32 AM
I just learned that DataDan passed away August 24. Don't have additional details. He will be missed at all of the motorcycle forums that he participated in.
Motorcycle Safety / Campfire chat
What do you like doing other than motorcycling?
bachman1961
07/26/2021  10:49 PM
Great topic !
Fun hearing about other's interests and such.

One thing that's been a bit of a mainstay for me since my teen years is a slight interest in creative writing. Not necessarily talent but the selfish act of entertaining myself if nothing or nobody else. I'm not much on archives or saving things other than some email versions but it began as a pen pal thing with a group of kids I met on a summer vacation/cruise ship (girls from the St Louis area) and stayed in touch for quite a time. Just friendly chat and updates and somewhat between girlfriends in my home town.
Before long, I was writing to my girlfriend away at college and eventually when the internet / email systems became old news, I loved the instant ability to write, spell check, send etc.... I found reason to stay in touch with friends and family whether they missed me or not. Writing was a good outlet and at times, my stories became bigger than life in fun ways or at least I found ways to laugh at myself and use that as motivation in sharing funny things or staying in touch. Things that "went Brian" put the funny ingredients into just about any day of my life. We all know these things are more about how you tell the story that helps it along or more entertaining.

Beyond that and more recent times, family living nearby keep us busy these days with our kids a block away from each other and 2 miles from our house. Both are in the family way, married for years and our grandkids number 4 , all boys with 3 on the one side and 1 on the other.

For most of the 28 years we've been in CO, I've kept busy or at least somewhat fitness related on a mtn bike. Adventures and camaraderie keep me interested. A few bumps and bangs in the younger days have schooled me on taming things as I get older and x-ray costs escalate. My wife has an e-bike within the past 16 or 18 months so the bike thing is something we can enjoy together and gives me an excuse and reason to get out 2 or 3 times a week in one way or 'nother.

My profession/s and work life have not been terribly interesting but have created some basis for fun writing at times. I have been at a hospital in C Springs for the better part of 20 years , coming up on 21 in August. That was about the start of much of my fun writing, full immersion into learning more and getting handy on internet stuff, websites, shopping and joining forums of interest including this one ! BTW- This better than 20 years thus far has been the midnight shift with weekends as Tues - Weds nights off and has worked pretty well for me in that regard.
I do winter ski occasionally and had a wonderful experience for a number of years working with, training and skiing with disabled skiers as a volunteer instructor in a sit-ski adaptive program.

Hello to those that remember me and Hi / Welcome to the newer adds !
Motorcycle Safety / General Discussion
Getting a flat while riding
scottrnelson
04/21/2021  9:45 AM
So yesterday I was out on my XR650L riding a little bit of dirt and a lot of paved highway. The road I was on at the time was mostly straight, but with a few bends in it. On the last couple of corners before I realized I had a flat tire, I noticed the tires squirming a bit. Rather than considering that my tire was going flat I was thinking that my tires weren't as good as I had thought they were. But as I slowed to turn into a side road and started leaning into the turn it felt like the rear tire folded over and slid quite a ways. I know that a rear tire sliding an inch or two feels like six or eight inches, but I was a bit concerned until I straightened it up. Yep, tire is flat.

I parked the bike off of the road in the dirt and tried to figure out the best way to solve the problem. I started by thinking of who I knew with a truck that was willing to drive 20 miles to come get me, then I realized that I had a spare wheel with a good tire on it sitting in my garage. So I rode 20 miles back home on the back of the other XR650L of the rider I was with. Riding two up on a dual sport for 20 miles isn't what I consider fun. Had my wife take me back, swapped wheels on the side of the road, then rode it back home.

That got me to thinking about how many times I've had flat tires out riding. I've had quite a few. Most were reasonably harmless, but I came very close to crashing one of those times. I found a lot of different ways to get it fixed too.

Here's a list of what I can remember:
  • Yamaha DT-175 around 1982 - Was out exploring with a friend, rode over a mountain on a dirt road into a different county and ran over a large nail. I had no way to patch a tube or pump up a tire, so I took the rear wheel off, got on the back of the other bike, a DT-400, and rode about five miles into town holding the wheel. We found a tire shop, talked them into patching the tube, I put it back in the tire, then we filled it with air, rode back, stuck it back on the bike and finished the ride.

  • Ducati Monster around 1999 - I had gotten a flat tire on the rear of the Ducati, not while riding, and took the wheel to the local Ducati shop to have it patched. I figured I could get another 1000 miles out of that tire. One week later I was riding on a twisty back road, ran over a board or something with nails in it and punctured it again. The tire picked it up and slammed it into the plastic "hugger" that keeps dirt off of the shock and took a chunk out of that too. There was absolutely nowhere to park an injured motorcycle along that narrow road where I got the flat, so I crept along for nearly a mile on the flat tire before finding enough room to park it off of the road. I flagged down another rider who was passing through, talked him into giving me a ride home, then came back with my truck, loaded it and brought it home. I figured that tire was trying to tell me that it needed to be replaced by getting a second flat.

  • KTM 990 Adv, 2013 - Was riding around town, ran over a razor blade or something, and sliced open my brand new Heidenau rear tire - just 600 miles on it. Noticed it as I was pulling into the parking lot at work. I called the local motorcycle shop where I had bought the tire to see if they had another one and they did. The shop was only about a mile away and I thought I could just ride there on the flat, but they came to get me in a pickup truck and the bike and I went to the shop with them. It was about a 3/4" slice in the tire which possibly could have been fixed with a new tube, but I wouldn't be able to trust it at speed, so I paid the two hundred buck for another new tire. Better safe than sorry, and all that.

  • KTM 990 Adv, a year or so later - Was riding down a canyon road almost directly into the sun, didn't see a large rock in the road, hit it, made it through about two more turns then the front tire was completely flat and the bike didn't want to steer. Got it stopped at the far side of the oncoming lane and was thankful I hadn't gone down. A woman in a car came by about thirty seconds later and offered me a ride the few miles into town. Called a neighbor with a trailer that regularly holds motorcycles, and convinced them to drive 25 miles to come rescue me. Patched it, had another flat a couple of weeks later then replaced that one.

  • KTM 990 Adv, probably six months later - The rear tire on that bike was so stiff that I lost air in the rear and rode it about 40 miles on the highway before realizing what the real problem was. It felt strange, but I though it was the front again. Turned out the rear had no air. It was hard to tell it was "flat" by just pushing on the tire. Finally replaced it.
No more flats until yesterday. And now I'm realizing that the tire on the XR that went flat is the same model as all of those KTM flats. I really like that tire on and off road, but I'm beginning to think that they tend to go flat way too often.

Anybody else ever get flats while on a ride? If so, how did you handle it?
Riding skills where I'm getting a bit rusty
scottrnelson
04/15/2021  8:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Eagle Six

I feel I get enough experience to keep on my toes throughout the year. However, last year during the summer season I fell into a bad habit of flicking on me turn signal before I had check same travel traffic. A couple times it was bad timing and confused the cage coming up at my rear quarter. It surprised me that it took more effort than I thought to break that habit.
Yeah, this is exactly the sort of thing I was referring to.

Recognize the potential issue, then work on fixing it.
Riding skills where I'm getting a bit rusty
Eagle Six
04/15/2021  8:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by scottrnelson

Even though I now live somewhere that gets real winter, I rarely go more than two weeks without doing some kind of ride. Now that we're regularly having days above 45 degrees I'm trying to get out riding at least once a week.

So most of my riding skills are staying pretty sharp. Things like judging the speed for upcoming corners, traction available for all sorts of conditions, and most things involved in riding on highways.

But today I did something different. I tried to take the back roads to a town up in the mountains and had to turn around when I got up high enough that there was ice on the dirt road. When I came back down I decided to ride through downtown Boise and head away from the mountains. I had a couple of incidents where I could tall I wasn't 100% on top of my game, even though I wasn't really in any danger.

The first case was on a divided two-lane road (one lane each way) where I came up to an intersection and realized a little late that I needed to turn left there. Instead of moving into the left turn lane as soon as it opened up, I waited until the car behind me had already zoomed into that lane and was right next to me. Not a big issue, just wait a little and pull in behind them, but I realized that I was unaware that the car was there until I had turned on my left turn signal and went to check my blind spot. I should have known the position of any cars behind me too. This is a case that I rarely encounter, and something I can see that I need to be better at.

The second case was on another (undivided) two-lane road where a car was coming downhill from a side street on the right. Normally I don't trust anybody who could possibly invade my space, but I think I was assuming too much that they would stop at their stop sign. I believe the driver was just trying to time it to pull in right behind me as I went by, but it was still going 10-15 mph through that stop sign. And the car was less than one car length away as I went by. I need to pay a bit more attention to ALL cars that could possibly invade my space.

So, thinking about your riding, are there some areas like this where your skills might be a bit rusty because you don't encounter them often enough?

I'm not going to go into town to "practice" this stuff more, but I'll try to be more aware of the dangers in conditions that I don't normally encounter. Most of my riding is on highways and dirt roads where there are way fewer cars to worry about.



Hi Scott, good to here you get out in the cold during the winter. I usually get 1-2 ride a week throughout the winter, but I'm guessing my winters are a bit milder than yours.

My bike is designed for pavement with hypersport tires. I live on a dirt road so each time I ride I get a half mile of dirt. I will ride some dirt/gravel roads if they are well graded, usually keeping it 15-20 mph or less. I'm situated in a small town with typical big time traffic at peaks. Do mostly country riding from small town to small town. 1-2 times a month I venture to the big city for business, meet friends, or pickup gear. I did that yesterday for a set of tires.

I feel I get enough experience to keep on my toes throughout the year. However, last year during the summer season I fell into a bad habit of flicking on me turn signal before I had check same travel traffic. A couple times it was bad timing and confused the cage coming up at my rear quarter. It surprised me that it took more effort than I thought to break that habit.

Any other time I made a bad move it has always been when I let my mind drift. Fortunately it hasn't got me in trouble and probably more embarrassing to me, than the other guy.

With age comes a reduction in vision, timing and reaction. So I find myself working a bit harder than I did when I was younger. The one aspect of winter riding that does annoy me is the addition of more layers, heated liners, thicker gloves, neck gaiters, all which restrict my movement somewhat more than summer gear. I tend to slow down a bit when temps fall into the 20's and check my route before venturing off in areas I'm not that familiar with.

It's important that we discover and recognize our shortcomings and act to correct them. our safety always starts with us.

Good thread you started, Thank You. I always like reading posts that make us stop and think about our own skills and abilities.

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