| Member |
 Discussion Topic  |
|
kacinpa
 Advanced Member
802 Posts
[Mentor]
Lansdale, PA
USA
Triumph
Sprint GT
|
 Posted - 07/02/2011 : 10:54 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by here2learn
What state has an 85% pass rate at the DMV on the first try?
This should be the point where we agree that getting a license in the Motorcycle Sales Foundation course is easier than most DMVs. Agreed?
No, it doesn't mean we can agree on that. It is quite possible and likely that those who show up to take the DMV test have had NO training of any kind. Those who take the skills evaluation at the end of the BRC have just spent many hours practicing low speed skills that are part of the test.
What a higher pass rate from the BRC population tells me is that those individuals were BETTER PREPARED to take a skills test, NOT that the test they took was "easier"
If you take two groups of students, one who studied Chemistry in a classroom and lab setting and another group who read some articles on chemistry frrom the internet on their own, then gave the groups two similar test on general chemistry and the group that did the class and lab work scored better, would you attribute that to them being given an "easier test"? |
 |
|
|
Axiom2000
Moderator
1761 Posts
[Mentor]
Georgetown, Delaware
USA
BMW
F 800 GT
|
Posted - 07/03/2011 : 5:01 AM
|
quote:
What's the Delaware DMV test pass rate?
Strange as it may seem, one day a few months ago I asked a DMV examiner in his estimation how many pass the motorcycle test on the first try. His answer, after looking at the sky and thinking about it for a moment was, "about 85%".
Unofficial of course but I am betting that's not to far off and not different than most states. But good quetion and I will attemp to get the actual number now. |
|
|
|
here2learn
Junior Member
35 Posts
Hampton Roads, Va
USA
Honda
Rebel
|
Posted - 07/03/2011 : 12:40 PM
|
Well I cannot refute your claims, anecdotal as they may be. Let me talk her of a specific example that I know about.
In Ca, if you put a foot down during the "low speed maneuverability" you immediately fail the entire test. (this skill is evaluated and required to get a license)
In the MSF course, if you put a foot down during the tight U-turn evaluation, in fact regardless of how badly you do on that particular exercise, you can still pass. (this skill is evaluated, but not required)
Does that not mean the standard is easier? |
|
|
|
Axiom2000
Moderator
1761 Posts
[Mentor]
Georgetown, Delaware
USA
BMW
F 800 GT
|
Posted - 07/03/2011 : 1:27 PM
|
quote:
Does that not mean the standard is easier?
Perhaps in CA. I know here the "U turn" and the offset cone weave are graded at points added for the sin. My guess is each state is different. I doubt however that the majority of states grade that particular skill as tough as CA.
Look you can believe what you like, that's fine, obviously your mind is made up. I am sure you have your reasons and motivations for your beliefs.
As I have stated previously I don't believe there is much difference at all in the two tests certainly not enough to point with any certainty that one is superior to the other. I tend to believe neither test is really a great indicator of ones ability to actually ride safe on the streets. Until something better comes along it is what it is. All either of us can do is the best job we can in teaching new riders while working hard to instill a safety mind set and good attitude in their approach to riding. If we are successful at that then in the long run our students will be far better of regardless off what grade or test then pass. |
|
|
|
here2learn
Junior Member
35 Posts
Hampton Roads, Va
USA
Honda
Rebel
|
Posted - 07/03/2011 : 6:52 PM
|
Fair Enough Axiom, we can agree to disagree, regarding which is easier.
I dislike ending in a stalemate, but thanks for the challenge. |
|
|
|
James R. Davis
Administrator
17362 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
|
Posted - 07/03/2011 : 7:24 PM
 
|
I found that the DMV test was considerably easier than the MSF (it was the RSS class at the time) test, but then the states buckled under to 'MSF' standards, and continued with that abdication of responsibility even as the MSF lowered its standards. So, I am of the opinion that the typical DMV test is roughly equivalent to whatever the MSF says is 'standard' as that's what the legislatures apparently want.
(Exceptions like Oregon and Idaho exist, of course.) |
|
|
|
rayg50
Moderator
2083 Posts
[Mentor]
NYC, NY
USA
Honda
Shadow Spirit 750DC
|
Posted - 07/03/2011 : 10:20 PM
|
quote:
In Ca, if you put a foot down during the "low speed maneuverability" you immediately fail the entire test. (this skill is evaluated and required to get a license)
When I took my car road test many moons ago, NY would fail you if you did not parallel park well. Years later I guess someone realized that not too many fatalities occurred while parking and decided to focus on what mattered.
IMO failing someone for putting a foot down in the box (or it's equivalent) is overkill but points should be deducted. A pattern of lack of low speed control should result in accumulating enough points to cause the would be rider to fail.
If they are going to fail someone because of a single act then I can see braking or swerving being good candidates. Failing to do a head check before any turn I can also see as a good candidate (although I do not remember them as being required at all). Those skills can save or take a life.
my .02
|
|
|
|
Discussion Topic |
|
Should licensing be tied to training?