| Member |
 Discussion Topic  |
|
TonicBIA
 Senior Member
382 Posts
Arlington, Va
USA
Triumph
Sprint ST
|
|
|
scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6918 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, ID
USA
Honda
XR650L, 1090 Adv R
|
 Posted - 11/20/2014 : 4:07 PM
|
| The only thing I know (from BARF) is that the MSF didn't bid on the training, so someone else was bound to end up with it. Lee Parks should be as good as anybody. His book, Total Control has helped me improve my riding. |
 |
|
|
gymnast
Moderator
4260 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
|
Posted - 11/20/2014 : 4:10 PM
|
This could be a breath of fresh air. There is more than on way to skin a cat, something that the MSF should have learned about 40 years ago.
Imagine how motorcycle safety education programs could have evolved and advanced if various alternatives to MSF would have been allowed, encouraged, supported, and researched as to their merits and revised where necessary to increase their effectiveness.
Two states went off "the MSF reservation", Oregon and Idaho. The programs in both of these states have seen their share of obstruction by a "possessive" MSF. In spite of this, they have been highly successful in reaching their training goals and have developed innovative program elements. |
|
|
|
TonicBIA
Senior Member
382 Posts
Arlington, Va
USA
Triumph
Sprint ST
|
Posted - 11/21/2014 : 4:49 PM
|
Rob gladden just posted this on the Msf forum
Dear CMSP Stakeholder,
The Motorcycle Safety Foundation and its Board of Trustees have thoroughly analyzed the California Highway Patrol?s California Motorcyclist Safety Program (CMSP) Invitation for Bid (IFB) for administering the rider training program in the state from 2015 to 2017. Due to a variety of untenable terms and conditions in the new IFB, the MSF has chosen not to submit a bid at this time, as we would not be able to appropriately serve the California motorcyclists who provide approximately 80% of the funding for the program through their annual vehicle registration fees and the students who pay 100% of the tuition fees.
We realize our decision will prohibit use of MSF curricula within CMSP for the first time since the official program began in 1987. As you know, the MSF has administered the California program since 2004. The program was originally created under a pilot program from 1980 through 1983, when the MSF and the California Office of Traffic Safety signed a contract to coordinate rider education activities in the state.
However, the MSF's priority as we consider pursuing the administration of any motorcycle safety program is our mission in rider education. We are sharply focused first on doing no harm and minimizing risks, and, additionally, imparting riding skills, mental strategies, and executive-level perception and judgment using adult learning principles and student-centered, rider-specific coaching. Our overriding goal is to help riders create their own toolbox of street strategies to manage risk. As part of this mission, we continually enhance our curriculum, best exemplified by the implementation this year of the updated Basic RiderCourseSM (BRC), which took our team of professionally credentialed experts three years to research and field-test and which resulted in significant restructuring and updates to the BRC Rider Handbook, modernization of the classroom experience and improved riding exercises. Any update also necessitates changes to the instructional aids, RiderCoach guides, riding range materials, Train the Trainer certification programs, Quality Assurance protocols, knowledge and skill tests (which are used in most states for licensing purposes), professional development and implementation workshops, and more.
Revising a world-class learn-to-ride curriculum is not a decision the MSF takes lightly. In fact, the MSF employs a formal, rigorous change process that involves a sequential iteration procedure with multiple levels of review, extensive pilot-and field-testing at several training sites, and feedback from dozens of RiderCoaches and hundreds of students before any changes are accepted and implemented.
The MSF's curricula are developed in compliance with the MSF's curriculum standards, which are the only comprehensive curriculum standards available. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has coordinated a curriculum content standard for entry-level motorcyclist training, which is a framework of what content a curriculum should contain, but does not establish technical criteria, methods, processes, or practices under which a robust curriculum should be developed, implemented, and assessed.
In the case of the California program, the parameters of the training program would change substantially under the proposed contract. As just one example, the CHP has mandated the right to modify any element of the curricula. Upon request for a change, the contractor would have only 30 days to implement any such modification. No formal review process or pilot testing procedures are referenced. Such a change would violate the MSF's curriculum design standards and result in a loss of integrity of its intellectual property. Also, 30 days would not be nearly enough time for the MSF or any responsible bidder to test, evaluate, and implement system-wide changes. Implementation of even a minor curriculum change should involve extensive research and field-testing, and would likely involve revising, reprinting and distributing instructor materials, training site administration protocols and student textbooks; retraining instructors; repainting training ranges; and revising quality assurance standards. Further, CHP has indicated it would not defend the contractor, or its subcontractors, against liability for any such changes.
Over the past 11 years MSF?s dedicated CMSP team and CHP?s CMSP coordinators have accomplished many public service successes. We made a formidable team that has been watched closely by other state administrators due to the great successes we have achieved in administering the nation's largest program. One outcome of these efforts was the national recognition CHP earned in the 2009 National Law Enforcement Challenge. Practices, policies and procedures developed by the MSF in its administration of CMSP have become models for motorcyclist safety programs across the country. The local small businesses, community colleges and military programs who serve as training site sponsors in California have been wonderful partners as they brought our gold-standard curriculum to life with their students. As a team, the CHP, the MSF, the site sponsors, MSF-Certified Quality Assurance Specialists, and nearly 600 MSF-certified RiderCoaches have provided California residents with ready access to training, the highest level of quality assurance, and most importantly, our desired student outcomes: riders who are competent in skill and strategy, and understand the importance of wise and safe decisions. The MSF and its partners have more than doubled the number of training sites from 63 when we began our administration in 2004 to 131 sites today, reduced peak-season wait times from 90 days in 2004 to less than 30 days today, and trained more than 600,000 California motorcyclists during the course of the program contract, all while saving current riders $2.2 million by reducing administrative overhead and increasing efficiencies. In fact, riders' fees held by CHP now exceed $10 million.
Rider education and training is serious business. The well-being of the student and future motorcyclist is at stake, and their safety is the MSF's top priority.
The MSF understands that state administrative priorities can change, and different state agencies might take the opportunity to explore new approaches in new contract periods. We respect that intention because, in the end, we all have the same goal ? to have trained, licensed, and safe riders. But change must be for the betterment of the student. The MSF is flexible and nimble, and we can accommodate flexibility for jurisdictions, but this flexibility has always been about administrative matters, not the potential for wholesale changes that affect the foundation ? developed over 40 years ? of the Rider Education and Training System that MSF offers to 48 states, the U.S. Department of Defense worldwide, and others.
In the end, we must be consistent with our mission. In evaluating the new IFB from multiple perspectives, the MSF has concluded that it cannot administer the CMSP as proposed and remain true to its rigorous standards and strategies for serving the riders. Therefore, it is with regret and disappointment that we have chosen not to submit a bid in response to the new Invitation as proposed.
Perhaps in the future there will be other opportunities for MSF and CHP to work together on traffic safety in a mutually beneficial manner.
Sincerely,
Robert Gladden
Vice President
Motorcycle Safety Foundation |
|
|
|
TonicBIA
Senior Member
382 Posts
Arlington, Va
USA
Triumph
Sprint ST
|
Posted - 11/21/2014 : 4:51 PM
|
| Apparently Cape Fox no bid for a similar reason. |
|
|
|
DataDan
Advanced Member
569 Posts
[Mentor]
Central Coast, CA
USA
Yamaha
FJR1300
|
Posted - 11/21/2014 : 5:48 PM
|
From Gladden:
Such a change [in curricula] would violate the MSF's curriculum design standards and result in a loss of integrity of its intellectual property.
Not mentioned is how ownership of the modified curricula would be decided. If CMSP gains ownership, MSF loses revenue.
I wonder if this was an attempt by CMSP to go the Team Oregon route and develop its own program. Perhaps they intended to modify MSF and take over the rights to the final product without having to pay for the considerable value in the base product |
|
|
|
rayg50
Moderator
2083 Posts
[Mentor]
NYC, NY
USA
Honda
Shadow Spirit 750DC
|
Posted - 11/22/2014 : 9:32 AM
|
| Does Parks have the resources to set up and manage a statewide program like this? |
|
|
|
James R. Davis
Administrator
17332 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
|
Posted - 11/22/2014 : 10:32 AM
 
|
As most of you know, I am not a fan of the MSF's methods, behaviors, and some of its curriculum.
But I am 100% behind them in their decision to no bid for the California franchise.
The MSF is a successful business. It MUST protect its assets and itself. California's attempt to modify the provider's contract is an example of overreach that was both uncalled for and unacceptable - it would have added risk to the MSF's business model, it's bottom line, the 'standards' it has developed, potentially to the well-being of its students, and to some of the positive value of the MSF brand.
I don't think Lee Parks yet has the ability to make good on his winning bid, but I've never seen a Rider Coach or MSF employee work as hard as he does at his trade. He is a doer! I'd bet on his success. |
|
|
|
rayg50
Moderator
2083 Posts
[Mentor]
NYC, NY
USA
Honda
Shadow Spirit 750DC
|
Posted - 11/22/2014 : 1:36 PM
|
quote:
As just one example, the CHP has mandated the right to modify any element of the curricula. Upon request for a change, the contractor would have only 30 days to implement any such modification. No formal review process or pilot testing procedures are referenced.
This is the part that has me understanding / agreeing with the decision not to enter the competition. IMO, even if the time to comply were longer you are still at the mercy of governmental whim and ignorance. |
|
|
|
Horse
Senior Member
258 Posts
Newbury, Berkshire
United Kingdom
BMW
R850RT
|
Posted - 11/23/2014 : 1:36 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by rayg50
quote:
As just one example, the CHP has mandated the right to modify any element of the curricula. Upon request for a change, the contractor would have only 30 days to implement any such modification. No formal review process or pilot testing procedures are referenced.
This is the part that has me understanding / agreeing with the decision not to enter the competition. IMO, even if the time to comply were longer you are still at the mercy of governmental whim and ignorance.
Indeed. Things are very likely to have changed, but in '94 when I did my instructor course, 'not being sued' was half a day. A key part was to have, and keep to, a proven syllabus. |
|
|
|
TonicBIA
Senior Member
382 Posts
Arlington, Va
USA
Triumph
Sprint ST
|
Posted - 11/24/2014 : 7:53 AM
|
Talked to a friend at CF
Cape Fox no bid it for similar reasons to MSF as well as a clause that said all coaches will be treated as employees. You can't treat subcontractor's staff as your own employees legally. Hell, at a certain point of providing guidance the subcontractors employees might even become your employees from a legal point of view. In case you haven't seen the current sticking point with McDonalds check out the below.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/235798
In short- all the guidance and standards set by McDonalds is being treated as supervision by the company which potentially makes all franchise employees McDonald's employees. So McDonalds would be on the hook, or at the last a named party, for any future lawsuits; requirements to provide benefits; accounting practices etc.
In short, I'm surprised by the decision of ANYONE to bid on the contract in its current form.
|
|
|
|
TonicBIA
Senior Member
382 Posts
Arlington, Va
USA
Triumph
Sprint ST
|
Posted - 11/24/2014 : 7:56 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by James R. Davis
I don't think Lee Parks yet has the ability to make good on his winning bid, but I've never seen a Rider Coach or MSF employee work as hard as he does at his trade. He is a doer! I'd bet on his success.
Lee is a promoter. I love how such a small show makes an enormous splash with their Total Control class. So many riders know about it, want to take it and have some basic understanding on what it's about. The same cannot be said with the new MSF curriculum from the ARC on, and they're a much bigger shop.
However, I've worked with Lee in the past. He's such a control freak that I have to wonder if he has the capability to let go of the reigns enough to allow anyone else to train coaches on his curriculum.
Maybe it won't be as bad with a beginner course but taking the TC-ARC instruction from him was... interesting. |
|
|
|
outlaws Justice
Starting Member
2 Posts
Watertown, New York
USA
KTM
950 Adventure
|
Posted - 11/24/2014 : 9:13 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by James R. Davis
I don't think Lee Parks yet has the ability to make good on his winning bid, but I've never seen a Rider Coach or MSF employee work as hard as he does at his trade. He is a doer! I'd bet on his success.
I bet he will bring in the right people to make it happen and be a success, |
|
|
|
outlaws Justice
Starting Member
2 Posts
Watertown, New York
USA
KTM
950 Adventure
|
Posted - 11/24/2014 : 9:14 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by TonicBIA
Maybe it won't be as bad with a beginner course but taking the TC-ARC instruction from him was... interesting.
This is the question, he will have to have faith and confidence in his team |
|
|
|
gymnast
Moderator
4260 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
|
Posted - 11/26/2014 : 9:26 PM
|
I have recently become aware that Stacy Axmaker will soon be leaving his position as Director of the Idaho STAR Program to Join Lee Parks in facilitating the implementation of the new California rider training program. "Ax" has done an outstanding job here in Idaho and I expect that he will be equally successful in his new endeavor.
It is not unlikely that several other highly qualified persons from various locations and will also be involved in the implementation of of the California contract. |
|
|
|
CaptCrash
Advanced Member
744 Posts
[Mentor]
Nampa, ID
USA
Honda
Phantom
|
Posted - 11/27/2014 : 10:10 PM
|
They'll be using the Team Oregon/Idaho STAR Basic 1...
And they are bringing on Stacey Axmaker from Idaho STAR.
So I lose my best boss. |
|
|
|
Horse
Senior Member
258 Posts
Newbury, Berkshire
United Kingdom
BMW
R850RT
|
Posted - 11/28/2014 : 6:49 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CaptCrash
They'll be using the Team Oregon/Idaho STAR Basic 1...
Wasn't one of the outcomes from the MSF V TO legal battle that:
"8. Team Oregon will continue its practice of not marketing its program outside Oregon and will not grant permission for others to reproduce its materials." |
|
|
|
CaptCrash
Advanced Member
744 Posts
[Mentor]
Nampa, ID
USA
Honda
Phantom
|
Posted - 11/28/2014 : 11:57 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Horse
Wasn't one of the outcomes from the MSF V TO legal battle that:
"8. Team Oregon will continue its practice of not marketing its program outside Oregon and will not grant permission for others to reproduce its materials."
Not a lawyer but the TO/Idaho material is open source and therefore...well, can you "Market" a product that others do not need "Permission" to copy/use/expand/build off?
Also, since the MSF did not even bid on the contract--do they have a dog in the fight? |
|
|
|
Horse
Senior Member
258 Posts
Newbury, Berkshire
United Kingdom
BMW
R850RT
|
Posted - 11/28/2014 : 2:23 PM
|
OK, thanks.
Is there a tie-in between Idaho and TO? Same syllabus, etc? |
|
|
|
CaptCrash
Advanced Member
744 Posts
[Mentor]
Nampa, ID
USA
Honda
Phantom
|
Posted - 11/28/2014 : 8:21 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Horse
OK, thanks.
Is there a tie-in between Idaho and TO? Same syllabus, etc?
Effectively they are identical. |
|
|
|
TonicBIA
Senior Member
382 Posts
Arlington, Va
USA
Triumph
Sprint ST
|
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 7:07 AM
|
Looks like Bobbie Carlson from Pennsylvania (and Cape Fox) is now the Program Manager in California.
After the pains on both sides of the MSF/Oregon lawsuit I'm interested to see if MSF makes any forays into challenging the expansion of the STAR program. If MSF doesn't rock the boat I have a feeling that Virginia will soon be following suit. |
|
|
|
Discussion Topic |
|
|
|
Lee Parks taking over California Safety Program