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Doc
 New Member
13 Posts
LAS VEGAS, NV
USA
Suzuki
GSX650F among others
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 Posted - 02/15/2016 : 11:28 PM
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This is interesting. Nebraska has a proposed law that in exchange for letting riders ride without helmets, they have to pay an increased registration fee into a ?Motorcycle Safety and Brain Injury Trust Fund." Thoughts?
http://www.revzilla.com/common-trea...rd-questions
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The Meromorph
Moderator
834 Posts
[Mentor]
White House, TN
USA
BMW
R1100RT
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Posted - 02/16/2016 : 7:20 AM
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| I cannot see why Motorcyclists should be allowed to ride without helmets, anymore than car drivers should be able to drive without seatbelts. |
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DataDan
Advanced Member
569 Posts
[Mentor]
Central Coast, CA
USA
Yamaha
FJR1300
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Posted - 02/16/2016 : 8:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc
This is interesting. Nebraska has a proposed law that in exchange for letting riders ride without helmets, they have to pay an increased registration fee into a ?Motorcycle Safety and Brain Injury Trust Fund." Thoughts?
http://www.revzilla.com/common-trea...rd-questions
That requirement is a first, I think. Usually when a rider choice bill is proposed, it is tied to insurance or training.
Here's another unusual one, from Tennessee:
The fight resumes Tuesday [today], when the House Finance Committee is scheduled to vote on the latest bill, House Bill 700, which allows anyone 21 and up with medical or health insurance other than TennCare to ride without a helmet.
TennCare is the state's Medicaid program. |
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1714 Posts
Stratford, CT
USA
Suzuki
Bandit
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Posted - 02/18/2016 : 11:23 AM
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Seems to me a missed opportunity to reward wearing a helmet, with a lower registration cost, instead of punishing all riders for those that want to wear none.
It always struck me as odd, in my state, that drivers must wear a seat belt but riders don't have to wear a helmet.
On the other hand, I know many riders that go helmetless all the time, but with a small state, and surrounded by states that require helmets, they strap a tiny brain bucket on the bike to wear if leaving the state.
My guess is, if they passed a helmet law, those guys would simply wear the skimpiest thing they can get away with, even novelty helmets with a fake DOT sticker. So what's the point... |
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greywolf
Moderator
1484 Posts
[Mentor]
Evanston, IL
USA
Suzuki
DL650AL2
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Posted - 02/18/2016 : 12:09 PM
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| The difference between a poor excuse for a helmet and no helmet at all is probably greater than the difference between that helmet and the best helmet available. |
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1714 Posts
Stratford, CT
USA
Suzuki
Bandit
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Posted - 02/18/2016 : 3:05 PM
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Pat, do you know of any study that indicates that?
Although certainly a novelty helmet offers no protection, or claims to.
I've always wondered 2 things about a half helmet. Could the edge catch pavement or other things and twist, and could the edge of the helmet itself actually concentrate impact to that area of the skull if that's what hits ground?
Unless the DOT has testing and data, should half helmets even wear a DOT sticker? Just wondering out loud. |
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greywolf
Moderator
1484 Posts
[Mentor]
Evanston, IL
USA
Suzuki
DL650AL2
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Posted - 02/19/2016 : 6:45 AM
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| No study beyond anything with a hard outer shell with padding inside is better than nothing at all. The idea that helmets cause injury is bunk. The Hurt report showed no significant difference in neck injuries between helmeted and unhelmeted riders. I'm sure the statistics folks around here have better info. |
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gymnast
Moderator
4260 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
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Posted - 02/19/2016 : 12:14 PM
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The proposed Nebraska Law changes look like a bit of rather unfocused Hegelian incrementalism. Not likely to pass.
How about a law rewarding/requiring the wearing of full face helmets? Maybe someday, in a far distant future----or much sooner if there is a federally mandated single payer health care system. |
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1714 Posts
Stratford, CT
USA
Suzuki
Bandit
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Posted - 02/19/2016 : 5:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by greywolf
No study beyond anything with a hard outer shell with padding inside is better than nothing at all. The idea that helmets cause injury is bunk. The Hurt report showed no significant difference in neck injuries between helmeted and unhelmeted riders. I'm sure the statistics folks around here have better info.
The edge of a half helmet has no padding, it has a plastic trim piece. No one was talking about neck injuries, so don't know why that came up.
Seems to me that edge encircles important parts of the skull. |
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greywolf
Moderator
1484 Posts
[Mentor]
Evanston, IL
USA
Suzuki
DL650AL2
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Posted - 02/19/2016 : 5:33 PM
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| The usual guff about a helmet causing injury is about neck injuries. That's what I thought you meant. I've never even seen any speculation about such an edge problem. |
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1714 Posts
Stratford, CT
USA
Suzuki
Bandit
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Posted - 02/20/2016 : 7:05 AM
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I should have been clearer. I mean, a shorty helmet, rotating on the head, with little more than the strap holding it still.
I don't think they do test the edge. They usually drop the helmet onto an anvil on the cushioned parts.
I just see those half helmets with a bead, and sometimes a flared edge, positioned on the middle of vulnerable areas of the head, as well as likely spots to actually take the hit. |
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bachman1961
Advanced Member
2268 Posts
[Mentor]
colorado springs, co
USA
Honda
CB750 NightHawk
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Posted - 02/22/2016 : 1:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc
This is interesting. Nebraska has a proposed law that in exchange for letting riders ride without helmets, they have to pay an increased registration fee into a ?Motorcycle Safety and Brain Injury Trust Fund." Thoughts?
To that issue, I don't have a problem with it. It sounds like funding will be more general in terms of brain injury conditions without regard to the origin or cause instead of specific to m/c related compensated care but I feel there should be more of that anyways- ie; Riders who choose to up risks of expensive medical care unnecessarily should pay more into the system somewhere along the way.
It's been my opinion for a long time that riders choosing to ride without protective gear including a helmet are practicing a trait of careless arrogance that might end up costing them more than they have including forcing a healthcare system to 'write-off' uncompensated care. It's happening too much already and has been going on for a long time with indigent care and the homeless.... a part of our population that truly has no insurance or savings, yet need medical attention or medication. Safety Net Hospitals take a hit for hundreds of millions, it's nothing new and it's growing every day.
My wife manages a Dr Office and I recall her telling me years ago about a guy who just up and decided to quit paying for his health insurance and (presumably) take his chances. He even had the nerve to ask the office to waive a $40 co-pay for a visit.
I say if that poor soul has a catastrophic health situation, we roll his Lexus out of the garage, grab his flat screen/home theater system and have a h3ll of a rummage sale to cough up some dough he undoubtedly will try to stick our healthcare system with.
** Now you see why I didn't entitle this response "Don't get me Started!" haha , I've already did 3 laps on the Rant highway  |
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dhalen32
Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]
Omaha, NE
USA
BMW
R1200RT
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Posted - 03/28/2016 : 7:53 PM
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This was ABATE's latest run at our helmet law. It fell three votes short of cloture so we will continue another year with our universal helmet law. I testify against them annually as needed but was truly concerned this year. The bill made it out of committee with a 6 to 1 vote but got stalled in a filibuster that the bill's proponents were unable to break. The Senator who pushed this says he is done but I don't believe they will ever stop. The thing that really ticked me off was he kept telling the other Senators that Nebraska's motorcyclists want this TBI fund and had "stepped up" to fund it. Funny... He never talked to anyone but ABATE. They proposed $19 per bike registration increase to raise $1 million annually and it was all coming from just motorcyclists.
Dave |
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SkootchNC
Advanced Member
1062 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
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Posted - 03/29/2016 : 4:23 AM
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I disagree with charging ME more money, in order that some riders get to "enjoy freedom". I wouldn't mind kicking my registration up say $5.00 to support Motorcycle Safety and Brain Injury Trust Fund". BUT let those that wish to ride helmet-less pick up the tab. They can pay extra, let them make up the difference, and they can have a "special" license plate, along the lines of a personalized one.
An added benefit to the "helmet-less rider tag" would be to show the world exactly how many riders either do, or do not support such a law.
I've lived in "helmet-free states" and wore my helmet.... and will continue to do so, if NC was to succumb to such a "law" |
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dhalen32
Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]
Omaha, NE
USA
BMW
R1200RT
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Posted - 03/29/2016 : 6:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SkootchNC
I disagree with charging ME more money, in order that some riders get to "enjoy freedom". I wouldn't mind kicking my registration up say $5.00 to support Motorcycle Safety and Brain Injury Trust Fund". BUT let those that wish to ride helmet-less pick up the tab. They can pay extra, let them make up the difference, and they can have a "special" license plate, along the lines of a personalized one.
An added benefit to the "helmet-less rider tag" would be to show the world exactly how many riders either do, or do not support such a law.
I've lived in "helmet-free states" and wore my helmet.... and will continue to do so, if NC was to succumb to such a "law"
Scootch:
I agree. In fact, I proposed just such a modification to the bill during the public hearing. I even proposed the special plate. This is an extremely conservative state and the majority of the floor debate revolved around personal freedom and the "right" to choose. The thing that upset me the most was the sponsoring Senator declaring that Nebraska's motorcyclists came to him with the offer to pay for this trust fund. Nobody ever consulted with me or the other 75% of the state's motorcyclists who do not support such a change.
Dave |
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SkootchNC
Advanced Member
1062 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
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Posted - 04/01/2016 : 4:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dhalen32
Scootch:
I agree. In fact, I proposed just such a modification to the bill during the public hearing. I even proposed the special plate. This is an extremely conservative state and the majority of the floor debate revolved around personal freedom and the "right" to choose. The thing that upset me the most was the sponsoring Senator declaring that Nebraska's motorcyclists came to him with the offer to pay for this trust fund. Nobody ever consulted with me or the other 75% of the state's motorcyclists who do not support such a change.
Dave
so??? explain to my old and obviously ignorant mind, how will charging ME more money, so "chopper Charlie" can "ride free" gives me more "freedom" than I had before the bill passes?
Seems to me this law is akin to being asked to pay for somebody
else's beer, without setting foot in a bar???
I have no doubt a national organization approached a "friendly" state senator and suggested it... but (rather like face book) sometimes folks just make up data.
If this was NC, I'd be raising a sink. I accept there is a segment that believes helmet laws suck (seat belts, speed limits, stop signs, red lights) and infringe upon their "freedom" but the ones I know, are the first to howl that we need MORE regulations regarding drivers who hit motorcyclists
go figure |
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bachman1961
Advanced Member
2268 Posts
[Mentor]
colorado springs, co
USA
Honda
CB750 NightHawk
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Posted - 04/01/2016 : 5:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SkootchNC
If this was NC, I'd be raising a sink. I accept there is a segment that believes helmet laws suck (seat belts, speed limits, stop signs, red lights) and infringe upon their "freedom" but the ones I know, are the first to howl that we need MORE regulations regarding drivers who hit motorcyclists
go figure
In this last part, I've often wondered if I'm being too general or too assuming in thinking that most riders w/o protective gear or helmets are not as diligent as others who don the gear when it comes to reading up on safety tips, PLP and other forms of higher-level learning, discipline and riding/safety practices.
ie; Do stats show a distinction and pattern to non-gear riders having more crashes or incidents ?
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SkootchNC
Advanced Member
1062 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
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Posted - 04/02/2016 : 7:40 AM
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I will wait for Data Dan, to reply with actual facts...
Wendy Moon covered this in an April 2010 blog
https://wmoon.wordpress.com/2010/04...ompensation/
I lean towards the concept of "protect what you value" so... I have zero problem with folks who ride in shorts, or sneakers, tank tops etc..... I do mention, that I will offer ZERO sympathy should something happen.
It's called you're a grown up now, and are responsible for your choices, as well as consequences (intended, or otherwise).
If we can have a conversation, then great, if their head is filled with BELIEFS then I know reason does not stand a chance.
I'd suggest beginning a write in grass roots campaign Folks who want to go helmet-less write to your legislature, those who don't want to pay extra for the "right" should write to their legislature. Then let the numbers speak for themself |
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gymnast
Moderator
4260 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
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Posted - 04/02/2016 : 8:02 PM
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In 1976 I was John "Pat" Hand's thesis chairman when he did this Master Of Science Degree thesis study. http://www.worldcat.org/title/analy...oclc/2845712
John Hand found that the injured motorcyclists did not have sufficient insurance cover to pay their hospital and medical care bills and if other parties were at fault, their insurance cover fell short of covering the costs of injuries. The hospital costs significantly exceeded the funds available to settle the cost of motorcycle crashes.
HIPPA laws in effect today would make it difficult to replicate Hand's study however it is my belief that based on Hands study, hospitals, emergency services, and medical providers are on the hook for significantly greater costs than available compensation covers. This results in greater costs for everyone to make up for the shortfall.
An injured motorcyclist will receive the same emergency care whether they wore a helmet or not, whether the crash involved other vehicles or not, whether they were adequately insured or not. If the bills are paid or not. However the rider that failed to use available protective
gear to mitigate the extent of their injuries is likely to be freeloading on all responsible members of society.
Costs of a head injury case that ends up in intensive care are about $40,000 to $50,000 or more per day. Does the average motorcyclist have sufficient insurance coverage to handle a catastrophic loss such as that? Not likely.
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gymnast
Moderator
4260 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
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Posted - 04/02/2016 : 8:04 PM
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In 1976 I was John "Pat" Hand's thesis chairman when he did this Master Of Science Degree thesis study. http://www.worldcat.org/title/analy...oclc/2845712
John Hand found that the injured motorcyclists did not have sufficient insurance cover to pay their hospital and medical care bills and if other parties were at fault, their insurance cover fell short of covering the costs of injuries. The hospital costs significantly exceeded the funds available to settle the cost of motorcycle crashes.
HIPPA laws in effect today would make it difficult to replicate Hand's study however it is my belief that based on Hands study, hospitals, emergency services, and medical providers are on the hook for significantly greater costs than available compensation covers. This results in greater costs for everyone to make up for the shortfall.
An injured motorcyclist will receive the same emergency care whether they wore a helmet or not, whether the crash involved other vehicles or not, whether they were adequately insured or not. If the bills are paid or not. However the rider that failed to use available protective
gear to mitigate the extent of their injuries is likely to be freeloading on all responsible members of society.
Costs of a head injury case that ends up in intensive care are about $40,000 to $50,000 or more per day. Does the average motorcyclist have sufficient insurance coverage to handle a catastrophic loss such as that? Not likely. |
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magnaman
Standard Member
107 Posts
lake bluff, il
USA
Honda
Magna 700
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Posted - 04/02/2016 : 9:54 PM
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| I don't drive a car without putting my seat belt on, I don't ride a bike without putting on a full face helmet, a riding jacket with armor, and riding over pants with armor. To do otherwise in my opinion is foolish. However, when we have laws put in place that tell me how I must enjoy my entertainment I have to object. Yes at this point it becomes a civil rights argument. I don't want the government infringing on my right to keep and bear arms, I don't want dentists who did nothing wrong to be vilified, or charged with a crime for shooting a lion in a country where lions regularly eat people, etc., etc. The government continues to regulate more and more. Enough is enough. It must be stopped. Because what you want regulated today that someone else enjoys, will be the precursor to something that you enjoy, being regulated. I think we are adult enough to make our own decisions... and take responsibility for those decisions. I don't need another mother to tell me what to do. |
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Discussion Topic |
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Nebraska Helmet Law