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 Motorcycle Safety
 Sharing of Lessons Learned
 Sle cancelling turn signals
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1713 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 02/27/2018 :  7:23 AM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend                        Like
It's winter now so not many bikes on the road currently, but, I am having to fix a wire to my signal minder device which makes my turn signals self cancelling.

It made me think of the day which caused me to get the device. Turning right, I engaged the turn signal, but within 100 yards I am stopped for a light. The light changed quickly to green so I accelerated normally. Well, within seconds was another right street with a car wanting to turn left onto the street I was travelling. Lucky for me, he began coming out, but stopped before contact.

My turn signal was still blinking right. Yeah my fault, with only the excuse that within 1 minute I am turning onto a main street, then stopping for a light, then moving again on the green.

The thing is, I have seen this over and over again on motorcycles not equipped from the factory with self cancelling signals. Not likely the main cause of left turners into motorcycles at intersections, but I wonder how many times a bike inadvertently is giving the other motorists the wrong "signal".

Isn't it time for self cancelling be required? We have all these other electronic devices being installed by the factories. ABS, traction, stability, etc.

In the meanwhile, there is devices that can be installed that cost $100 or so.

Eagle Six
Starting Member
9 Posts


Snowflake, Arizona
USA

Kawasaki

ZX14R

Posted - 02/27/2018 :  1:46 PM
Hi Roger,

I'm a bit confused. I thought (have never had them) self-cancelling turn signals on a bike worked similar to a car. If that is correct, it doesn't appear as if they would have worked in your example. Perhaps I have missed something.

Best Regards......George
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1713 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 02/27/2018 :  6:54 PM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
Well, the device I installed is preset to a certain number of blinks. I have mine set to 7 blinks. At a stop, holding the brake light on, the blinks don't count. Only other self cancelling I know of is Harley, and they use a lean angle sensor I believe.

So, yes in my case the blinker would have cancelled prior to approaching the side street after the light. Actually it would have cancelled right about at the traffic light.
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6915 Posts
[Mentor]


Meridian, ID
USA

Honda

XR650L, 1090 Adv R

Posted - 02/27/2018 :  10:30 PM
I'm surprised that self cancelling turn signals aren't standard on a bunch of bikes. I had a 1984 Yamaha with them. The signal would keep blinking if I wasn't moving, but would turn itself off if I was moving after some number of blinks. I would still check the switch position eventually, just like I do now to make sure my signals are off - over and over.
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1713 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 02/28/2018 :  7:05 AM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
My older brother is one of them, going miles and miles blinking away. He doesn't see my efforts behind him trying to tell him.

When I installed my signal minder, he was interested, but never did it.

Our rides are out in the country, weekdays, since we are both retired. At least fewer chances of traffic assuming he'll turn where he isn't.
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Eagle Six
Starting Member
9 Posts


Snowflake, Arizona
USA

Kawasaki

ZX14R

Posted - 02/28/2018 :  9:00 AM
Thank You Roger. I have never had an interest in a bike with that feature or the aftermarket type either, so I never knew how they may work. Today I learned something.
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Alan_Hepburn
Male Standard Member
198 Posts


San Jose, Ca
USA

Honda

1994 GL1500SE

Posted - 02/28/2018 :  3:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rkfire

Well, the device I installed is preset to a certain number of blinks. I have mine set to 7 blinks. At a stop, holding the brake light on, the blinks don't count. Only other self cancelling I know of is Harley, and they use a lean angle sensor I believe.



Honda has used them for decades - my '94 Goldwing has them. They are designed to cancel after a certain distance traveled, or after the front wheel is turned from straight ahead. I think they're also linked to the bank angle sensor, but with a sidecar I don't activate that sensor much!
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1713 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 02/28/2018 :  4:10 PM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
I didn't know Goldwings had that, do any other Honda models?
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JanK
Male Junior Member
85 Posts


Ljubljana, Ljubljana
Slovenia

BMW

R1200R

Posted - 03/05/2018 :  4:40 AM
The BMW R1200R (and probably other new BMWs) have them.

For anyone looking to retrofit cancellation electronics, check out https://www.safer-turn.com/

They have a device with accelerometers and gyroscopes, the data from which is processed by a microcontroller. The turn-off is not only determined by time or number of blinks, but by an algorithm that tries to determine what sort of maneuvre you just did (roundabout, over taking,...).

No connection to the company.
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1713 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 03/05/2018 :  6:47 PM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
The one I installed was Signal Minder by Kissan.

I have it set for 7 blinks, which to me is perfect. At a light, keeping the brake light on puts the blinks on "hold". Can set for 3, 7 or 15 blinks too if you wanted. I can cancel manually too.

The other features it has is, it gives me 4 way flashers (normal or wig wag), and brake flashing function to the signal lights, which quickly flash then slow to steady on. It also turns all 4 signals to running lamps as well. You can pick and choose which features or all.

I am soldering the connections though, as those clip on style connectors are not proving to be all that reliable.

I like all the features, and use them all. Gives me a little more visibility to the other motorists I think.
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dhalen32
Male Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]


Omaha, NE
USA

BMW

R1200RT

Posted - 04/11/2018 :  5:40 AM
My BMW has them but my other bikes do not. I like the feature and wish all bikes had them. It could prevent other vehicles from pulling in front of us when they believe we are turning rather than proceeding straight ahead. I'm not sure that it would prevent those left turners however. That problem is one of inattentional blindness on their part. They simply do not perceive us in the way they do other cars and trucks.
The Engineering challenge with self-cancelling signals on a bike is our lack of a steering wheel to go past a certain angle to engage a mechanism to then turn them off. So ... on bikes there must be some sort of simple "computer" to use time, number of "blinks", distance travelled, etc in order to determine when to shut them off. The solution is just not as simple on a bike which leans to turn rather than turning a steering wheel so many degrees.
Dave
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1713 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 04/14/2018 :  12:41 PM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
Yeah but Dave, I think the "left turner" problem is typically the bike going straight, it's the car turning.

In respect to the technology, the device I bought was $109, options to the number of blinks you want to set it for, and keeping the brake light on pauses the blink count. So at a light or extended wait, I keep the brake light on, and the count resumes once I am off the brake. Works like charm for me.

On top of it all, for the 100 bucks, I utilized the 4 way flasher, running lights, and flash while braking feature (quick flashes to steady on). My bike didn't come with 4 way flashers either.

The only quirk is, the front signals flash the same as the rear on braking. BUT, I have found that to be an excellent feature when seeing a car inching to pull out from a side street or parking lot. I initiate the brake light without really applying the brakes. The front turn signals give that quick flash, and amazingly I see them come to a complete stop. They noticed me.


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James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 04/14/2018 :  2:52 PM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
I like the idea of self-canceling flashers, but many riders simply don't have access to them.

I believe that momentary use of high beams as you approach an intersection with someone signaling that they are going to turn left at least gets their attention. What I don't know is how that would play out in a civil suit in court when the left-turning driver claims that he thought that was a signal inviting him to turn.

Any thoughts?
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rkfire
Advanced Member
1713 Posts


Stratford, CT
USA

Suzuki

Bandit

Posted - 04/15/2018 :  9:25 AM   Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
My concern too would be, does the other driver take it as a go ahead signal, so I don't flash my headlight. I think flipping to high and leaving it on might do the trick.

I had the same concern with my turn signals being flashing brake lights in the FRONT, but, they flash very quickly a couple times then steady on. I have noticed cars stop rolling into the road, but so far, never had anyone think it meant go ahead pull out.
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6915 Posts
[Mentor]


Meridian, ID
USA

Honda

XR650L, 1090 Adv R

Posted - 04/16/2018 :  7:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by James R. Davis

I like the idea of self-canceling flashers, but many riders simply don't have access to them.

I believe that momentary use of high beams as you approach an intersection with someone signaling that they are going to turn left at least gets their attention. What I don't know is how that would play out in a civil suit in court when the left-turning driver claims that he thought that was a signal inviting him to turn.

Any thoughts?

I use high beams to warn drivers, but I don't just blink it quickly, I leave the high beams on until I'm past the person whose attention I'm trying to get. I don't see how that could be interpreted as anything other than a warning. Still, I consider them to be a major danger until I'm past them just in case, so I'm watching them carefully and I'm much more cautious.

That's one reason I like the European bikes that I've owned - they have a flash-to-pass switch that turns on the high beam just by grabbing it with my left index finger. My Honda doesn't have that feature and is rather awkward to hit high beam with. Maybe newer Japanese bikes have something like that, but none that I've owned.
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James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 04/16/2018 :  9:16 AM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
I like your intersection approach behavior better than mine, and it seems to me to completely invalidate any claim that it would be interpreted as a 'go ahead' signal rather than a warning and bid to become more noticeable.

Bravo!
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6915 Posts
[Mentor]


Meridian, ID
USA

Honda

XR650L, 1090 Adv R

Posted - 04/16/2018 :  3:02 PM
Being able to switch on the high beam is another reason not to ride with the high beam already on when in traffic. You don't have anything left to make yourself stand out otherwise. Some online motorcyclists claim to leave the high beam on all the time, which I find both inconsiderate and foolish. I'll turn it on in the hills when I'm not behind anybody or when the sun is directly behind me, but otherwise I used it only as needed.
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dhalen32
Male Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]


Omaha, NE
USA

BMW

R1200RT

Posted - 04/18/2018 :  4:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by rkfire

Yeah but Dave, I think the "left turner" problem is typically the bike going straight, it's the car turning.

In respect to the technology, the device I bought was $109, options to the number of blinks you want to set it for, and keeping the brake light on pauses the blink count. So at a light or extended wait, I keep the brake light on, and the count resumes once I am off the brake. Works like charm for me.

On top of it all, for the 100 bucks, I utilized the 4 way flasher, running lights, and flash while braking feature (quick flashes to steady on). My bike didn't come with 4 way flashers either.

The only quirk is, the front signals flash the same as the rear on braking. BUT, I have found that to be an excellent feature when seeing a car inching to pull out from a side street or parking lot. I initiate the brake light without really applying the brakes. The front turn signals give that quick flash, and amazingly I see them come to a complete stop. They noticed me.





Roger:
That was my point. Bike going straight, car turning left in front of me has nothing to do with me having a turn signal on. They just don't see me because they aren't looking for me.

I ride with the high beam on all of the time during daylight hours and when approaching an intersection with possible intercepting vehicles/left turners I do the following:
Slow down
Cover my controls
Weave side to side in an attempt to draw the other's attention to the fact I am there and approaching them
Dave
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