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 Do you support mandatory helmet laws?
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kiddal
Male Advanced Member
1561 Posts
[Mentor]


SE, Indiana
USA

Kawasaki

KLR650
Peer Review: 1

Posted - 10/05/2005 :  10:22 PM   No DetailNo Detail                        Like
Poll Question:
How do you feel about mandatory helmet laws?

Results:
I strongly support mandatory helmet laws   [13%,25%] 60 votes 
I support mandatory helmet laws, but with revervations   [2%,6%] 13 votes 
I am neutral about helmet laws   [2%,2%] 6 votes 
I think people should wear a helmet but should not be required to do so   [10%,12%] 34 votes 
I am strongly against mandatory helmet laws (but I wear a helmet)   [8%,16%] 37 votes 
I am strongly against mandatory helmet laws (and I do NOT wear a helmet)   [3%,1%] 6 votes 
= Guests (60 votes)


Poll Status: Closed  »»   Total Votes: 156 counted  »»   Last Vote: 11/05/2005 2:42 PM 

jerrysad
Junior Member
36 Posts


Wichita, KS
USA

Yamaha

XJ550 Maxim

Posted - 10/14/2005 :  6:51 AM
I'm strongly in favor of seat belt laws, but nuetral on helmet laws...

Why?

If, God forbid, you wreck your bike, and you are in a situation where a helmet could have saved your brain, all you damage is yourself. (Yes, I know, your family will also suffer, and someone will have to pay for medical, and possibly funeral expences.)

Seatbelts, on the other hand, prevent the driver and front passenger from moving around a vehicle after impact, thereby affording a chance to keep or regain control of that vehicle, which gives people outside of the vehicle a fighting chance.
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Axeman1958
Male Senior Member
276 Posts


Hempstead, NY
USA

Harley-Davidson

Electra Glide U.C.

Posted - 10/14/2005 :  9:51 AM
quote:
If, God forbid, you wreck your bike, and you are in a situation where a helmet could have saved your brain, all you damage is yourself.


If you're out cutting up on your bike and crash, sure but,what if someone in a cage hits you? Helmets (and safety gear in general) are for those unexpected moments when the rider really has no control over what happens next. Also, out of control motorcycles hit other vehicles and people, too.
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Mydlyfkryzis
Senior Member
274 Posts
[Mentor]


West Milford, NJ
USA

Honda

1991 Nighthawk 750

Posted - 10/14/2005 :  7:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Axeman1958

quote:
If, God forbid, you wreck your bike, and you are in a situation where a helmet could have saved your brain, all you damage is yourself.


If you're out cutting up on your bike and crash, sure but,what if someone in a cage hits you? Helmets (and safety gear in general) are for those unexpected moments when the rider really has no control over what happens next. Also, out of control motorcycles hit other vehicles and people, too.



If you are hit hard enough for the helmet to play a part in protecting you, I doubt you will regain any control of the motorcycle.
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kiddal
Male Advanced Member
1561 Posts
[Mentor]


SE, Indiana
USA

Kawasaki

KLR650

Posted - 10/14/2005 :  10:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mydlyfkryzis

If you are hit hard enough for the helmet to play a part in protecting you, I doubt you will regain any control of the motorcycle.

Generally true, but a helmet could prevent a wreck if hit in the face by a rock or bird.
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plainsman
New Member
16 Posts


Gardner, KS
USA

Honda

Shadow Spirit 1100

Posted - 10/25/2005 :  1:09 AM
"all you damage is yourself" - not necessarily true. In many cases, the taxpayer winds up picking up at least part of the tab if long term head injury results.

Edited by - plainsman on 10/25/2005 1:10 AM
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don_hud
Advanced Member
1077 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, Texas
USA

Yamaha

1997 Virago XV1100

Posted - 10/25/2005 :  8:59 AM
When I was growing up, some friends of my parents had a son that was just a few years younger than me. I knew him because we went to the same high school. He was in a motorcycle accident on the freeway. He was not wearing a helmet and he suffered severe brain damage.

He was in a coma for about a year, came out of the coma and was like a drooling vegetable for about the next 25-30 years requiring nursing home care before he finally died. A few years after the accident, his parents divorced, I'm sure the accident was a major reason. But I don't see any way that this family would have been able to afford to pay the cost of nursing home care for all those years, I'm sure they were probably getting some financial help from either Medicare, Social Security or from the state.

A simple young foolish mistake, that could have been completely avoided if he had been wearing safety gear, destroyed his life, broke up his family and changed their lives forever. And I'm sure they probably became a burden on the taxpayers also.

Being young and foolish or just being rebellious is not worth taking a risk on something that could happen to anyone. People don't always have all the information they need to make the right choice. Rebelling against helmets laws is a bad choice.
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Lithorien
Male Junior Member
68 Posts


Bremerton, Washington
USA

Honda

Rebel 250 (CMX)

Peer Review: 1

Posted - 10/30/2005 :  11:13 PM
I strongly believe that helmets are a very good thing and that they will save lives of people who wear them. I think that if everyone wore a helmet that they would be much better off in the long run. However.

I also believe that I have no right to tell someone else to stop being stupid. If they want to play russian roulette with their own life, let them. People ultimately have to make their own choices in life, and if someone wants to be less safe for whatever reasons they have, then I'm not going to try to force them to do otherwise. I'll tell them to their face that they are being a moron and putting their life on the line, but beyond that..

Just my 2c.
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plainsman
New Member
16 Posts


Gardner, KS
USA

Honda

Shadow Spirit 1100

Posted - 10/31/2005 :  12:27 AM
quote:
If they want to play russian roulette with their own life, let them.
Lithorien - did you not read and understand what don_hud wrote in the posting just ahead of yours? The young person in don_hud's posting not only played with his own life, but with the lives of his parents and the money of the taxpayers. Don't your rights stop at my nose, whether I represent your family and friends or the folks who would have to pick up the tab for the "exercise of your rights"?

Edited by - plainsman on 10/31/2005 12:29 AM
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Lithorien
Male Junior Member
68 Posts


Bremerton, Washington
USA

Honda

Rebel 250 (CMX)

Posted - 10/31/2005 :  9:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by plainsman

Lithorien - did you not read and understand what don_hud wrote in the posting just ahead of yours? The young person in don_hud's posting not only played with his own life, but with the lives of his parents and the money of the taxpayers. Don't your rights stop at my nose, whether I represent your family and friends or the folks who would have to pick up the tab for the "exercise of your rights"?


I read that, but I considered it a vastly different situation. As he used the term "son" explicitly, I assumed he was refering to someone who was under 18 and didn't have the legal right to make that decision on his own. Therfore he didn't fall under the catagory that I was refering to. If this person was over 18, my argument stands as it is - regardless of the results to the family and taxpayers, that man, that adult, has the right to play with their own life.

Am I saying that it's right not to wear a helmet? No. Am I saying that it was morally ok for anyone to cause their families pain from their stupidity? No. All I am saying, plainsman, is that I do not have the right to force someone to not be stupid. That's it.
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plainsman
New Member
16 Posts


Gardner, KS
USA

Honda

Shadow Spirit 1100

Posted - 10/31/2005 :  11:05 AM
OK, but I must say, I'm intrigued that anyone would assert the right of one person to act in any way which could adversely impact, even indirectly, on another person's wallet without the second person's permission. One definition of this kind of behavior is "theft".

You are certainly more accommodating than I.
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kiddal
Male Advanced Member
1561 Posts
[Mentor]


SE, Indiana
USA

Kawasaki

KLR650

Peer Review: 1

Posted - 10/31/2005 :  11:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by plainsman

OK, but I must say, I'm intrigued that anyone would assert the right of one person to act in any way which could adversely impact, even indirectly, on another person's wallet without the second person's permission.

This argument could be used to prevent anyone from ever driving anything.

Helmets would also save lives in cars, wouldn't they? Why not mandate that as well? Or whenever you use stairs at home (the #1 cause of deaths at home).
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plainsman
New Member
16 Posts


Gardner, KS
USA

Honda

Shadow Spirit 1100

Posted - 10/31/2005 :  12:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kiddal

quote:
Originally posted by plainsman

OK, but I must say, I'm intrigued that anyone would assert the right of one person to act in any way which could adversely impact, even indirectly, on another person's wallet without the second person's permission.

This argument could be used to prevent anyone from ever driving anything.

Helmets would also save lives in cars, wouldn't they? Why not mandate that as well? Or whenever you use stairs at home (the #1 cause of deaths at home).



Yeah, I suppose we could get ridiculous about it, but I think you beg the question.

Society already takes steps to reduce similar kinds of injuries, through the laws requiring use of seatbelts. We require building construction to comply with certain safety standards. We also require liability insurance (even for motorcycles), for the purpose of paying some of the costs of accidents so Society at large (or other individuals) doesn't have to. Why should motorcycle riders be exempt from the same kinds of responsibilities to Society at large?

I know we all tend to think of ourselves as free spirits and not subject to many of the "norms" that Society seems to dictate, but, ultimately, we still have to carry our share of the load.

Edited by - plainsman on 10/31/2005 12:17 PM
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Lithorien
Male Junior Member
68 Posts


Bremerton, Washington
USA

Honda

Rebel 250 (CMX)

Posted - 10/31/2005 :  4:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by plainsman

Why should motorcycle riders be exempt from the same kinds of responsibilities to Society at large?


We aren't. Every one of us over 18 and with a job pays taxes into the government to support the laws and regulations that keep people safe. We pay taxes for the medical care of others who become injured and can't afford it for themselves, to some extent.
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nomad dan
Advanced Member
1276 Posts


Denver, Colorado
USA

Kawasaki

06 Vulcan Nomad 1600

Posted - 10/31/2005 :  5:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by plainsman

"all you damage is yourself" - not necessarily true. In many cases, the taxpayer winds up picking up at least part of the tab if long term head injury results.



That's true of car crashes with head trauma, and car drivers aren't required to wear a helmet based on the same logic. There are a lot of people with TBI's that happened in a car
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plainsman
New Member
16 Posts


Gardner, KS
USA

Honda

Shadow Spirit 1100

Posted - 10/31/2005 :  7:24 PM
OK. I give up.

Edited by - plainsman on 10/31/2005 7:25 PM
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Arnold
Male Standard Member
176 Posts


Santa Monica, CA
USA

Kawasaki

KZ1000

Posted - 10/31/2005 :  9:50 PM
I think Mr. Davis says it best when he states "Helmet laws are a civil rights issue, while wearing a helmet is a safety issue." (I may be paraphrasing here).

I agreee with that sentiment. In my opinion wearing a helmet (all the time) makes sense. Helmet laws, on the other hand, make very little sense. I view helmet laws along the same line as a law requiring people to wear jackets when it is cold out. I think it is a bad idea to try to legislate behavior. If you don't have the common sense to wear a helmet when you ride - then that's your problem.

Arnold
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qball
New Member
18 Posts


Los Angeles, CA
USA

Honda

CBR600RR

Posted - 11/03/2005 :  12:16 PM
I don't agree that helmet laws are just a civil rights issue. They are a fiscal issue as well. I don't want my taxpayer dollars spent taking care of some brain-dead dude because he was too stupid to wear a helmet.

I also don't see the analogy between wearing a helmet when riding a motorcycle vs wearing a jacket when it's cold. If you are riding a motorcycle and are not wearing a helmet, there is a good chance that you will sustain very severe head injuries which taxpayers may end up having to pay for. It then becomes Joe taxpayer's business. If you don't wear a jacket out when it's cold, you cause yourself discomfort and might catch a cold. And that's none of Joe taxpayer's business. And sure, you might also sustain a massive brain trauma by slipping in the shower or falling down the stairs in your own home. But statistically, how common an occurrence is that compared to a helmet-less rider sustaining a severe head injury in a motorcycle accident?

Furthermore, I can't think of a good reason for not wearing a helmet. It's very uncomfortable to not wear a helmet with the windblast and insects/road debris stinging you when it hits your face. I don't even like riding with the faceshield up. The cool factor associated with riding without a helmet has always escaped me.

So I guess I'm in camp with all you "Not wearing a helmet is stupid, and I have the right to tell you to not be stupid when it hits me in the wallet" folks. But I don't think we are going to agree on this so I'll shut up now; thank you and have a nice day
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subvetSSN606
Senior Member
418 Posts
[Mentor]


Ellettsville, IN
USA

Suzuki

800 Intruder

Posted - 11/03/2005 :  1:03 PM
<hypothetical>

Statistically, motorcycle riders have far more injuries and deaths per crash than other vehicles. I don't think I as a non-motorcycle rider should have to pay for their stupidity. It's not just about individual rights... this is affecting me financially. I think there oughta-be-a-law!

Me again...
How is that argument any different?

Tom
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kiddal
Male Advanced Member
1561 Posts
[Mentor]


SE, Indiana
USA

Kawasaki

KLR650

Posted - 11/03/2005 :  1:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by qball

And sure, you might also sustain a massive brain trauma by slipping in the shower or falling down the stairs in your own home. But statistically, how common an occurrence is that compared to a helmet-less rider sustaining a severe head injury in a motorcycle accident?

About 4 times as frequent. (Actually, closer to 8 if you narrow it by "helmetless")

From: http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm

I really don't think it's a civil rights issue either. There certainly is no Constitutional "right" to ride on public roads without a helmet. People are free to ride on their own property in any attire they like. I think it's simply a highway equipment regulation which is in the jurisdiction of each state legislature to regulate however they deem appropriate.
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subvetSSN606
Senior Member
418 Posts
[Mentor]


Ellettsville, IN
USA

Suzuki

800 Intruder

Posted - 11/03/2005 :  1:36 PM
The issue of whether we as a society choose to provide care to those who cannot provide it for themselves is an entirely different issue than how they found themselves in that position. We are as a society supporting a lot of people who have made bad decisions that have absolutely nothing to do with motorcycles or helmets.

Who then decides where the "stupidity" line lies?

You chose to ride without a helmet... too bad, that was stupid!
You chose to live where hurricanes are likely... too bad, that was stupid!
You chose to live where mudslides are likely... too bad, that was stupid!
You chose to live where earthquakes are likely... too bad, that was stupid!
You chose to live where tornadoes are likely... too bad, that was stupid!
You chose to have kids you couldn't afford... too bad, that was stupid!
You chose to eat yourself into obesity... too bad, that was stupid!
You chose not to buy insurance... too bad, that was stupid!
You chose to work for a company that wound up going bankrupt and your pension and benefits are gone... too bad, that was stupid!

Should there be a qustionaire you have to answer at the emergency room entrance? Fail the test and they leave you in the parking lot?

Just saying there's more to it than whether it affects your purse. It's just not that simple.

Whether or not wearing a helmet is a good idea from a safety standpoint... that's easy!

Tom
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