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James R. Davis
 Administrator
17381 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
Peer Review:
Blocked
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 Posted - 04/15/2007 : 11:29 AM
   
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Poll Question:
This is a members only poll which attempts to discover how often accidents and/or injuries occur in the MSF BRC or Riders Edge classes. Please indicate whether or not in such a class that *you* attended there were any accidents (inluding dropped motorcycles) and/or injuries. (I have been asked to correct an impression left by this question. That is, there are only state sponsored and Riders Edge classes and all use the MSF's BRC. To call a state sponsored class an 'msf' class does a disservice to the state and unfairly credits MSF.)
If you responded that you have attended such a class, whether there were any accidents or injuries or not, please add a message telling us what state held the class, whether or not it was a Riders Edge class, and any and all details you can remember about those incidents (including simply saying that there were none.)
Thank you!
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| Results: |
| No - I did not attend any such class so cannot respond properly here. |
[17%] |
10 votes |
| No - There were no accidents or injuries in the class I attended. |
[22%] |
13 votes |
| Yes - There was at least one accident, but no (apparent) injuries as a result. |
[38%] |
23 votes |
| Yes - There was at least one accident but the injuries sustained were apparently not significant. |
[20%] |
12 votes |
| Yes - There was at least one accident and the injuries sustained required medical attention. |
[3%] |
2 votes |
| Yes - There was at least one accident and the injuries resulted in broken bones. |
[0%] |
0 votes |
| Yes - There was at least one accident and the injuries sustained resulted in SERIOUS damage. |
[0%] |
0 votes |
| Yes - There was at least one accident and there was a death resulting from it. |
[0%] |
0 votes |
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Poll Status:
Closed »» |
Total Votes: 60 counted »» |
Last Vote:
07/17/2007 7:53 AM |
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James R. Davis
Administrator
17381 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 11:37 AM
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I will start this out with my experience as both a student and an MSF instructor.
It was a rare class that I personally participated in as student or instructor where there wasn't at least one bike dropped by a student.
All such classes were in Texas. All were either the RSS or ERC. I have never taken a BRC class though I have observed several.
Thankfully, there were no serious injuries during those classes. There was one minor burn, several bruises, a couple with abrasions, but no broken bones and no medical attention (at least at the scene) was required or called for. |
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SteveS
Advanced Member
1208 Posts
[Mentor]
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
Harley-Davidson
2018 Tri-Gliide
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 11:46 AM
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My class was the MSF equivalent here in Ontario in April 2003. There were two bikes dropped, but no injuries. One of the drops was during the "testing" and that person failed the course immediately.
I've since taken two advanced courses. Only one bike dropped during slow speed figure eights. Rider was not hurt.
Taking another advanced course on May 6th to begin the season with. Looking forward to it!
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Edited by - SteveS on 04/15/2007 3:56 PM |
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trafficdan
Junior Member
40 Posts
Pottstown, PA
USA
Harley-Davidson
2006 Sportster XL883
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 11:52 AM
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| I attended at the Valley Forge, PA site last year. (MSF ERC) |
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Indiana Randy
Moderator
2118 Posts
[Mentor]
Fort Wayne, Indiana
USA
Honda
2000 Magna V4 750
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 12:42 PM
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Indiana- The instructors bragged that everyone in their classes has passed- they've never failed anyone. MSF The two people who had never been on motorcycles before had to do a few of the final tests 3 or 4 times until they passed.
No drops or accidents. |
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txskins
Junior Member
29 Posts
Cedar Park, TX
USA
Yamaha
Stratoliner
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 1:48 PM
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| I attended the class in Austin, TX. We had a couple of drops but no injuries to speak of. |
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Nightraven
Junior Member
67 Posts
Vinton, VA
USA
Yamaha
V-Star Silverado 650
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 2:31 PM
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| I took the BRC class twice and the Trike/Sidecar class once. During the trike/sidecar class there were no problems. At the first BRC there was one lady in my class who dropped the bike and bruised her left shin a bit, but she still came back for the rest of the class. Another lady dropped her bike and ended up not coming back because she felt too banged up, but signed up to take the class again a couple months later. I, unfortunately, screwed up during the Box on the actual test portion and failed :( I didn't have those problems during the rest of the class, but, oh well. It just showed I needed more practice. I ended up buying a bike several months later and after some parking lot practice took the class again at a different community college. No problems there, but one or two others dropped a bike with no problems, although one person had the bike get away from them a little, but managed to get control back before they went down. |
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fnotneyrod
Junior Member
34 Posts
Cornish, ME
USA
Honda
96 Goldwing sidecar
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 2:36 PM
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The MSF class I attended was in southern Maine, last summer. One of the lady riders dropped her bike 3 times during the practice sessions, and was asked to leave the class. No apparent injury. I think the foot gear she wore may have contributed to her problem, because the boots had 2 inch heals.
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alton
Standard Member
232 Posts
Sarasota, FL
USA
Kawasaki
2018 Versys 650
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 2:37 PM
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| I took the MSF course about 4 years ago. There was one accident, by an instructor. He rode out to check the course, found some sand while turning around and went down... minor scrapes to both him and the bike, major embarrassment for him. Other than that, there were no accidents or drops by any of the students. |
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James R. Davis
Administrator
17381 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 2:43 PM
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You people are absolutely the best!
There has been demonstrated on this site a willingness to be candid - we let our helmets 'save face' for us. Since we apparently recognize that sharing REAL information - facts - instead of excuses leads to understandings, our readers benefit immensely from that attitude. Thank you!
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Stan
Standard Member
146 Posts
Tempe, AZ
USA
Kawasaki
Nomad 1500
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 2:44 PM
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| Arizona MSF. One dropped bike during swerve-stop drill (right in front of me). Heard high revs and brake squeal before seeing it go down. Person was scraped up pretty good and was helped home and did not finish the course. No lessons were given regarding picking up a bike. |
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warhog78
Junior Member
78 Posts
Kenosha, Wisconsin
USA
Harley-Davidson
2006 XL1200C
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 3:13 PM
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I took the Rider's Edge BRC last week at Uke's Harley Davidson/Buell in Kenosha, WI. We had a small class of 8; 6 men 2 women, 7 of us already owned motorcycles, 3 had already been riding for 5 years or more, and 1 already had their M endorsement. Our instructors were Chuck and Linda Miles.
There were three drops (all occuring during the "street strategies" portion of the riding cirriculum) but no injuries or more serious accidents occured.
The first drop happened during the offset cone weave; the student (several years of dirt bike experience, but no significant street experience) grabbed the front brake heading into the first weave and laid the bike down while staying on his feet.
The second drop occured when a student (had already had his M endorsement for 7 years) forgot to put his sidestand down when parking.
The third drop happened when a student (had one summer's worth of experience on a 150cc dirt bike almost 30 years ago) was coming back to the end of the line at the gate on a swerving exercise, and pulled the front brake as she was turning around to line up with the rest of us. The bike went down quickly, but she managed to get her foot off the peg and maintain her footing. |
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Mikey
Senior Member
287 Posts
Benton, Kentucky
USA
Harley-Davidson
FLHTCI/XL/FXDL
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 3:18 PM
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| My wife & I took the MSF basic riders course in '03 in Kentucky. There was one accident where a rider suffered minor abrasions when she ran off the training course. After receiving first aid, she returned to riding and completed the training course. All riders in our class passed. Our instructor showed us how to pick up a fallen bike after we had completed the training. |
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ksuguy
Senior Member
366 Posts
Wichita, KS
USA
Suzuki
V-Strom 650
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 5:06 PM
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We had one accident in my group. It was at an MSF course taught by a local private company run by a motorcycle cop and his wife. The accident was on the portion where you practice braking in a turn. I'm not totally sure what caused it since I didn't see all of it myself, but I think she might have hit the brakes when she was still leaned over too far. She dropped the bike at low speed and did not suffer any injuries. The instructor had to replace a broken clutch lever, but he had spare parts on hand to deal with the situation and it was taken care of within a few minutes.
I also came close to losing it on the panic stop exercise. Back then I was not very good at downshifting and braking hard at the same time. I could do one or the other, but not both at the same time. I locked the front and almost lost it. I managed to save it and avoided dropping the bike. However, I think I might have lost it if I was dealing with a larger, heavier motorcycle.
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6954 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, ID
USA
Honda
XR650L, 790 Adv R
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 6:51 PM
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I took the MSF ERC in November of 1997, just after I returned to riding after about ten years off.
A little more than half way through the afternoon riding exercises, while waiting in line to do my next run, I heard a crunch behind me. The guy on the CBR600 Hurricane had dropped his bike as he was lining up at the back of the line.
At the beginning of the classroom session he had mentioned that he had gone down on it a couple of times. Although we could hear the fairing crack, we couldn't detect any additional damage to the bike beyond what it already had. The rider was unhurt. |
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Mikeydude
Advanced Member
755 Posts
[Mentor]
Ft. Worth, Texas
USA
Harley-Davidson
03 FXD Super Glide
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 7:26 PM
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I took a MSF BRC last July at Tarrant County College in Ft Worth, Texas. There were no accidents, or even any close calls. But... there were only 5 students. 1 was a very experienced rider, 1 had already passed the Texas license test, 1 (me) was a returning rider, and the other 2 were the wives of the other 2 gentlemen.
To be honest, I was pretty disappointed with the class. I did well on the test, and only lost 3 points for leaving the box in the figure 8, but I was not given any straight answers to questions I asked... and even felt ignored with several of them. There was nothing I would call "instruction" with the exception of the day 1 begining clutch drills. The guy rode around the course doing what he wanted us to do, then said go, and we were left to do it on our own. And once, since we were such a small class, we did a drill half way (in only one direction when it called for both). The instructor never offered any tips or technique corrections. If someone did poorly on an excersize he just told them to do it again with no feedback.
Anyway... there were no incidents.  |
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River
Advanced Member
506 Posts
[Mentor]
Chippewa Falls, WI
USA
Kawasaki
Concours
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 7:59 PM
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In the BRC I took there was only one woman- who did very well, and about half/half new riders and some experience. One of the latter was a 50+ year old man who used to have a Harley back when they still had the hand-shifter.
He was the only one to have an accident- he dropped the bike (a 125cc eliminator that was a bit small for him) and bruised and cut his left leg during hard braking portion of the test. He had dropped and stalled the bike a couple times each previously.
He had not ridden a motorcycle for over 30 years. He walked away from the course and did not come back. I felt bad; he was obviously crushed at not being able to ride, but he also seemed to realize that his balance wasn't what it once was.
The rest of us passed.
^o^ |
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ed3173
Junior Member
55 Posts
Oxnard, Ca
USA
Harley-Davidson
Street bob
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 11:03 PM
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| MSF class in California- There was only one drop during the class...me. I used my front brake while doing a low-speed left turn and went down. No injuries to me (except my pride) and no damage to the bike. I got back on, finished the exercise and ultimately passed the course. Instructor did not show us how to pick up a dropped bike. |
Edited by - ed3173 on 04/16/2007 7:28 PM |
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gadgetgeek
Standard Member
149 Posts
Tracy, CA
USA
Suzuki
Bergman 650 Executiv
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 11:18 PM
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MSF class in California (Modesto JC). There were no incidents during class.
Geoff |
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WarHawk
Advanced Member
1796 Posts
Baytown, Texas
USA
Yamaha
'07 V-Star Custom
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Posted - 04/16/2007 : 1:14 AM
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Lady dropped her bike doing a slow turn and clamping on the front brake to hard...no injuries
MSF course in Houston (A+ Riders)
Drop was not instructors fault, it was a novice clamping on too much front brake in a slowspeed turn (as above..she was lining up in the row to start the next run after a swerve run and just got too much front brake)
Instructor stopped class...we stood up the bike, and he diagnosed the cause of the incident and we carried on, everyone passed the couse..the weaker rider had to go thru the figure 8 test - 3 times, but the instructor after all other riders passed and parked thier bikes spent 1 on 1 time with the older gentleman to educate him to actually do counter steering properly
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Edited by - WarHawk on 04/19/2007 10:56 AM |
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Chris_J
Senior Member
290 Posts
[Mentor]
Fitchburg, MA
USA
Honda
Reflex
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Posted - 04/16/2007 : 8:54 AM
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The three 'accidents' in my class were all laying the bike down with little or no motion.
1) Turn too slow and toppled.
2) (mine) forgot kickstand. (hey, I ride bicycles that don't have 'em)
3) another kickstand not all the way down.
In all case, rider just stepped out of the way with no injuries.
MSF class in Massachusetts taken to get MC endorsement. |
Edited by - Chris_J on 04/16/2007 1:09 PM |
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Discussion Topic |
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Accidents/injuries in MSF or RE classes