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 Motorcycle Safety
 Rider Training Courses
 Just registered for MSF ARC
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kacinpa
Male Advanced Member
802 Posts
[Mentor]


Lansdale, PA
USA

Triumph

Sprint GT

Posted - 07/14/2012 :  8:13 PM                       Like
I was finally able to be home and able to get online when registration opened for the last MSF Advanced Rider Course being offered in my area this year.

The class will be held on September 1st and I am looking forward to learning whatever I can from it. I will be sure to post about my experience in the class and share my opinion of it after I complete it.

kacinpa
Male Advanced Member
802 Posts
[Mentor]


Lansdale, PA
USA

Triumph

Sprint GT

Posted - 07/15/2012 :  6:19 PM
I have heard that the ARC was offered in the past here in PA, but was never able to actually FIND a class to attend. This year the PAMSP decided to set up several courses ant some of the sites around the State. The ones near me have filled up fairly quickly. Unfortunately none of them are really "close" to me! One is down by the Philadelphia airport, which is a real pain to get to and the other is about an hor north. Happily all of the classes the PAMSP offers are free of charge to PA residents.
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SkootchNC
Male Advanced Member
1062 Posts
[Mentor]


raleigh, north carolina
USA

Harley-Davidson

road glide

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  5:12 AM
Makes me glad to live in NC... Wake, Durham, and Johnston county community colleges all carry BRC, and ERC.... plus at least 3 H-D dealers do the same with the RE class.

Plus private schools Ride Like a Pro-NC, and MotoMark1, and those "BikeSafe programs" through so many local LEO departments.

While those are in my area, it hold true across the state
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6914 Posts
[Mentor]


Meridian, ID
USA

Honda

XR650L, 1090 Adv R

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  9:19 AM
So is it ARC or ERC?

The one that I took (twice) was ERC (Experienced Rider Course).
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kacinpa
Male Advanced Member
802 Posts
[Mentor]


Lansdale, PA
USA

Triumph

Sprint GT

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  9:51 AM
Here in PA at least it is "Advanced Rider Course", http://www.pamsp.com/CourseInfo_ARC.aspx

What they used to call the "Experienced Rider Course" is now called the "Basic Rider Course II" and is essentially the riding portion of the BRC.

They also have a seminar they call the "Experience Rider Seminar" which is a nice way of saying it's for us "old guys" who are starting to experience the effects of aging and how to deal with them in the riding environment.

I am not sure if the MSF allows different state programs to use different naming, or not.
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SteveS
Male Advanced Member
1208 Posts
[Mentor]


Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Harley-Davidson

2018 Tri-Gliide

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  1:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ed in Miami

Sorry to say that there isn't a big market for the ARC in South Florida. I haven't been able to find one down here. The BRC is mandatory and that's all the schools are offering.



Of course you could move (or visit) Toronto as we have several offerings of our "Pro Rider Course" throughout Spring, Summer and Fall. I've taken it and all of it's modifications each year since 2006.

I generally take it in the Spring as a 'tune up' one day course.

http://www.humber.ca/motorcycle/cou...cycle-course

This is just one of three Colleges in the area that offer the course. Come on up, Eh!

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dhalen32
Male Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]


Omaha, NE
USA

BMW

R1200RT

Posted - 07/17/2012 :  6:32 AM
Scott:
You probably have taken the ERC several times. As stated by kacinpa it has recently been renamed the BRC 2. The BRC 2 is a little more involved than "the riding portion of the BRC" but it is easy to understand how someone could get that impression since it is largely devoted to riding. The BRC 2 course consists mainly of on-bike exercises and there is no formal, sit-down classroom involved. However, there are 4 "extended breaks" where classroom-like activities and discussions occur. One of them involves preparing yourself and the bike for riding, another goes into a discussion of risk awareness, acceptance and a strategy for managing risk. Another discussion is very situational in nature where a variety of scenarios are discussed for where to place one's bike in a lane position, cornering strategies, covering controls, etc. The fourth discussion covers impairment and uses fatal vision goggles to illustrate how a .08 BAC can affect one's vision and how difficult seemingly easy tasks become.

The ARC (Advanced Rider Course) is relatively new and is nearly identical to the Military Sportbike Rider Course (MSRC). The first half of the day is a formal classroom situation where riders discuss and learn about a variety of topics that include risk management and a personal self-assessment of a rider's risk tolerance, decision making, riding strategies, rider behavior and choices one can make while operating their own machines. The second half of the day involves riding their own machines on a full sized range. After an initial low speed maneuvering exercise (to help us to assess whether they even belong there), we put the students through a higher intensity/deceleration rate braking exercise including an evade maneuver after coming to a stop. That is followed by exercises focused on cornering which allow students to try various body positioning techniques, speed adjustment (braking) while cornering, swerving while cornering, speed and lane position adjustments for multiple radius curves, decreasing radius cornering techniques and selecting a safe gap in heavy traffic situations. If the ARC is offered in California you should give it a try. I think you will find it more challenging than your experiences in the ERC.
Dave
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kacinpa
Male Advanced Member
802 Posts
[Mentor]


Lansdale, PA
USA

Triumph

Sprint GT

Posted - 07/17/2012 :  6:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dhalen32

Scott:
You probably have taken the ERC several times. As stated by kacinpa it has recently been renamed the BRC 2. The BRC 2 is a little more involved than "the riding portion of the BRC" but it is easy to understand how someone could get that impression since it is largely devoted to riding. The BRC 2 course consists mainly of on-bike exercises and there is no formal, sit-down classroom involved. However, there are 4 "extended breaks" where classroom-like activities and discussions occur. One of them involves preparing yourself and the bike for riding, another goes into a discussion of risk awareness, acceptance and a strategy for managing risk. Another discussion is very situational in nature where a variety of scenarios are discussed for where to place one's bike in a lane position, cornering strategies, covering controls, etc. The fourth discussion covers impairment and uses fatal vision goggles to illustrate how a .08 BAC can affect one's vision and how difficult seemingly easy tasks become.




Perhaps that is what's supposed to take place with the BRC 2, but when I took it last year none of those discussions took place and there was no use of "fatal vision goggles". The breaks between riding were simply breaks..go grab some water...or for several a cigarette. Perhaps it varies class to class based on the skills / abilities of those in attendance? I know in the class I took the RiderCoaches had to spend quite a bit of time with 4 participants who had great difficulty not locking the rear tire in the braking portion.

I guess there is greater variation than the MSF would like going from state to state or instructor team to instructor team.
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TonicBIA
Male Senior Member
382 Posts


Arlington, Va
USA

Triumph

Sprint ST

Posted - 07/18/2012 :  12:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by kacinpa

I guess there is greater variation than the MSF would like going from state to state or instructor team to instructor team.



The MSF is an interesting organization. While they design and provide a base curriculum, the states are given full discretion to change it to meet their needs. While you'll always find variation between coaches, especially in a 15 hour course, some of the mandated changes between states are impressive.

For instance- Maryland doesn't run one entire exercise and adds lots of extra ways to fail the skills test. Illinois runs the course in 20 hours instead of 15.

I hope you enjoy the ARC. It's a fun class but didn't gain too much traction. Virginia didn't pick it up because the jump from the BRC2 to the ARC wasn't that great and they perceived a larger benefit from the Lee Park Total Control Classes. Furthermore, modern parking lot design rarely affords an open area of the size needed to run the ARC.
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kacinpa
Male Advanced Member
802 Posts
[Mentor]


Lansdale, PA
USA

Triumph

Sprint GT

Posted - 09/01/2012 :  9:56 PM
Well, I did the ARC today and I have to say it was a great experience. It was pretty much as dhalen32 described to a "T".

The Classroom portion of the class went from 8:00am to 12:00pm, which included the written multiple choice test, which is normally done after the riding portion but the instructor moved it to accommodate one of the class members who had to leave immediately following the riding portion.

After an hour break for lunch, the riding portion went from 1:00pm to around 4:45pm. There was a wide variety of riders and bikes in the course, from mid 20s to 65+ and from a 250cc Supermoto bike to a Ninja 1000, a Ducati Multistrada and a fully loaded Gold Wing. I found it interesting that the RiderCoaches who taught my wife's BRC class this spring were among the students.

While I can't say I really "learned" anything new, but I certainly got to practice many things that I didn't have quite right on my own and get excellent feedback on technique. I also "scrapped a peg" for the first time, which I feel this class was the best place to experience that! It was also instructive to observe the other riders and particularly there bikes through the various maneuvers. It was quite eye opening to observe the difference in cornering ability between different types of bikes.

I would highly recommend this course to anyone who hasn't taken it before. I had a great time and I feel like I definitely improved my riding skills as a result of the course.
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dhalen32
Male Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]


Omaha, NE
USA

BMW

R1200RT

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  10:17 AM
Kacinpa:
I'm glad you enjoyed your experience in the ARC. Who were your Instructors? Herb and Carlos?
Dave
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kacinpa
Male Advanced Member
802 Posts
[Mentor]


Lansdale, PA
USA

Triumph

Sprint GT

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  1:19 PM
The instructors were Steve (Cohen?) and Tony (If he said his last name, it didn't stick). The Class was at Blackman's Cycles in Emaus, PA. They were both excellent and the two BRC instructors in the class commented to the rest of us that the class was run "strictly by the book", likely due to 2 fellow instructors being in the class. They also commented on how different it is teaching more skilled and experience riders vs the mixed bag in the BRC and BRC2 classes.
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dhalen32
Male Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]


Omaha, NE
USA

BMW

R1200RT

Posted - 09/04/2012 :  5:00 PM
Kacinpa:
Thanks! I was just curious and I'm glad that you had a good experience. Pennsylvania does a pretty good job of maintaining standards and they have a very good QA process in place to make sure their courses are taught as designed. Herb and Carlos are fellow RCTs who helped to train me as a 3WBRC RiderCoach in April and we all worked for the MSF in May at the IRETS conference in Kentucky. I believe that they both reside and work in the area of Pennsylvania where you live. I was hoping that they might have been your RiderCoaches for the class.
Dave
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