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 Motorcycle Safety
 Rider Training Courses
 Accident Scene Management class
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Norseman
Male Junior Member
60 Posts


Willow Spring, NC
USA

Kawasaki

Vulcan Nomad

Posted - 11/07/2011 :  7:57 PM                       Like
There may be a Accident Scene Management class offered in my area. I'm curious if anyone has actually completed this course and, if so, what your impressions were.

Tburd
Male Senior Member
475 Posts


Waukesha, WI
USA

Suzuki

Boulevard S50

Posted - 11/07/2011 :  8:24 PM
I've taken the accident scene management class offered here... http://accidentscene.net

The instructor in the class I took was Vicki Sanfelipo, the Executive Director of ASMI. I considered it a very good experience and am planning on repeating the course probably next year. Good information in my opinion, highly recommended.
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Norseman
Male Junior Member
60 Posts


Willow Spring, NC
USA

Kawasaki

Vulcan Nomad

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  7:15 AM
Why would you recommend this class? What were your "take-aways"?
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Tburd
Male Senior Member
475 Posts


Waukesha, WI
USA

Suzuki

Boulevard S50

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  9:37 AM
The ASMI program was started by Vicki after attending a similar program taught by "Slider Gilmore." I've taken the Basic course which lasted about a day, and there's an advanced course, some refreshers, and even an online refresher. Attendee's will get a booklet, mine is about 25 pages, that contains a lot of information even down to some details like dog bites and bee stings.

The course is roughly organized around the term "PACT."

P - Prevent further injury
A - Access the situation
C - Contact the EMS
T - Treat the injured with life sustaining care

The reality of a crash scene is that an injured person may need to be moved or a helmet may need to be taken off. You'll learn how to do this with both demonstrations and a hands on session by doing it yourself.

It's been two years for me so I plan on taking the Basic course again this winter, then probably the Advanced. The bottom line is that if I ever crash I hope someone on the scene knows what to do.
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Tburd
Male Senior Member
475 Posts


Waukesha, WI
USA

Suzuki

Boulevard S50

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  10:42 AM
The following link is to a writeup regarding a seminar presented by Slider Gilmore in 1992. Notes were taken by a person without medical training but in my opinion it looks like a good summary, at least worth the time to read it over.

http://www.molenda.com/accident.html

While the ASMI class and Gilmore seminar in general have the same overall scope, there appears to be quite a bit of difference in presentation and some of the details.

Edit: Added link

Edited by - Tburd on 11/08/2011 10:40 PM
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SkootchNC
Male Advanced Member
1062 Posts
[Mentor]


raleigh, north carolina
USA

Harley-Davidson

road glide

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  11:54 AM
the NC MRF/CBA had "Slider Gilmore" come do his class a few years back. I was able to attend (and still have my little pink pig), and enjoyed the class.

My take on the accident scene management class, is.... one learns how to react, to and accident, and to prevent the accident, becoming a major catastrophe. get YOUR bike out of harm's way.... set up a perimeter, control access to the scene, and get emergency workers to the scene ASAP.

It's not a first aid/cpr class...(but taking those are a good idea for any rider)
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MattInFla
Male Senior Member
254 Posts
[Mentor]


Casselberry, FL
USA

Harley-Davidson

Electra Glide Classi

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  2:41 PM
I have to say that I am more than a bit leery of teaching laypeople to remove a helmet from an injured rider.

In the absence of an airway problem, I don't see an indication for removing the helmet prior to the arrival of EMS.
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kacinpa
Male Advanced Member
802 Posts
[Mentor]


Lansdale, PA
USA

Triumph

Sprint GT

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  3:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MattInFla

I have to say that I am more than a bit leery of teaching laypeople to remove a helmet from an injured rider.

In the absence of an airway problem, I don't see an indication for removing the helmet prior to the arrival of EMS.



Very true.

But I have been trained in CPR / First Aid / Rescue Breathing, which includes precautions of how to perform the techniques where neck / back injury are suspected.

I have NOT been trained in how to most safely remove a helmet in order to perform CPR / Rescue Breathing if it is needed. To me training in that procedure would be a good tool to have rather than having to go by instinct in case the situation was encountered.

Not having taken the course, I can't say the context the helmet removal training is given in. I doubt however, that the participants are encouraged to remove the helmet of a victim who is not experiencing breathing issues. Perhaps those who have been through the training can confirm?
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Tburd
Male Senior Member
475 Posts


Waukesha, WI
USA

Suzuki

Boulevard S50

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  5:18 PM
quote:
In the absence of an airway problem, I don't see an indication for removing the helmet prior to the arrival of EMS.

In most circumstances the helmet should stay on, but if the injured person is not breathing (or is vomiting) then what choice do you have? In the class I got to practice on a fellow classmate and did a horrible job. If it had been an actual emergency situation and my pretend victim had spinal/neck injuries, they would not have done well with me there. Taking off the helmet is a two person procedure and while not too hard it takes knowing how plus concentration, and the consequences of doing it incorrectly are serious. It's an event that I hope never presents itself to me, and with my past training fading from memory I would not likely try it now.
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SkootchNC
Male Advanced Member
1062 Posts
[Mentor]


raleigh, north carolina
USA

Harley-Davidson

road glide

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  7:20 PM
at the Bike-Safe NC class, they show this product....
http://www.europlaz.co.uk/casestudi...ats_off.html

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gymnast
Moderator
4260 Posts
[Mentor]


Meridian, Idaho
USA

Harley-Davidson

Sportster Sport

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  7:34 PM
There are a number of pneumatic helmet removal devices available. http://www.bing.com/search?q=Pneuma...ZSBR&pc=MOZI

The concerns for laypersons as pertains to Accident Scene Management is to function in an orderly and systematic manner, doing those things that the person or persons involved are capable of doing in a calm and orderly manner. Summoning professional help, bringing order to chaos and stabilizing the scene so as to prevent further injury as appropriate to the situation is key to accident scene management. Persons holding a current NREMT-A Certification may look at the activity and situation from a different perspective than someone who had a Red Cross First Aid Course 20 years in the past. Yet the principles of management of the scene will be more or less the same for both persons.

Edited by - gymnast on 11/08/2011 9:17 PM
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Norseman
Male Junior Member
60 Posts


Willow Spring, NC
USA

Kawasaki

Vulcan Nomad

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  8:57 PM
I appreciate all the replies. If I'm reading everything put forward so far, I'm reticent to take this course. I already know...

...I'm not a paramedic or a medical doctor and not to act like I am.
...not to take off someone's helmet unless they can't breathe or their drowning in their own fluids.
...if something on a person is bent or stuck in or otherwise cattywampus to leave it alone until qualified individuals arrive.

Although I'm a believer in learning all I can, I'm also a believer in that old axiom "a little learning is a dangerous thing". At this point, I'm not quite certain where this course fits...guess I'll have to do more research...
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RMZMZM
Starting Member
8 Posts


Durand, IL
USA

Kawasaki

'07 Ninja 650R

Posted - 11/20/2011 :  8:50 PM
You are exactly the person this class is designed for!

If you do not feel comfortable attempting to administer any type of treatment to someone - then don't do it. That is the first thing the instructors tell you. There are other invaluable actions you can take once you know about them.

Knowing what information to collect and provide to the professionals when they arrive can make the difference between life and death in some cases.

I have been the first person on scene at an auto crash prior to taking this course. There were a few things I did correctly, and a few I neglected - one of which was a failure to pass critical information to the EMTs when they arrived. I didn't know how important it was to tell them the 12 year old was thirsty within 5 minutes and needed to urinate within 10 minutes after the crash. I'll never know if the child with symptoms of internal abdominal bleeding received treatment in time.

I have the opportunity to take ASM every year, and take advantage of it. I highly recommend it.
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Norseman
Male Junior Member
60 Posts


Willow Spring, NC
USA

Kawasaki

Vulcan Nomad

Posted - 11/21/2011 :  8:12 PM
"You are exactly the person this class is designed for!"

I fail to see why this is so. All I have done to this point is ask what one would learn from investing time and money in this course. So far, anything I would learn from the course has already been laid out. To wit - "unless the victim is having difficulty breathing, leave well enough alone until help arrives". I already know to do that.


"If you do not feel comfortable attempting to administer any type of treatment to someone - then don't do it."

In my last post, I mentioned I'm not a paramedic or a doctor. And that a little learning is a dangerous thing. I maintain someone who takes a "quickie course" and then tries to "administer treatment" is in all likelihood going to do more harm than good.


One thing we train the folks where I work..."No = not enough compelling information". Up to this point, I haven't gotten enough compelling information to warrant investing anything in this course.

I'm all for taking any training you can get - but after seeing all the replies, I think I've formed the opinion this course is more "hype" than "substance". Anything substantive offered can be communicated in a few bullet points. Certainly not worth half a c-note and a full day's worth of time.

But in the sage words of that great thinker...Dennis Miller, "that's just my opinion, I could be wrong". ;)
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RMZMZM
Starting Member
8 Posts


Durand, IL
USA

Kawasaki

'07 Ninja 650R

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  8:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Norseman

"You are exactly the person this class is designed for!"

I fail to see why this is so. All I have done to this point is ask what one would learn from investing time and money in this course. So far, anything I would learn from the course has already been laid out.....
But in the sage words of that great thinker...Dennis Miller, "that's just my opinion, I could be wrong". ;)



I stand corrected. This class is obviously not for you. It is difficult to "bullet point" what this class covers as it cherry picks information that applies primarily to motorcycle crashes from many sources.

This class is designed for the motorcyclist that recognizes:

Motorcycle crashes have a fatality rate 8 times higher than automobile crashes.
Motorcycle riders have a high probability of being first on the scene of a motorcycle crash.
Basic First aid and CPR are rarely the appropriate treatment for the most common types of trauma sustained in motorcycle crashes.
The first hour following a serious physical trauma is referred to as "the golden hour" for a reason and knowing what information to provide to EMS when they arrive can make the difference between life and death.

I have been the first person at both a motorcycle crash and an automobile crash prior to taking this course. After taking this course I would do several things differently in both situations. None of them involve me providing any type of medical treatment to the victims.
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