(Please visit one of our advertisers)

No donations or subscriptions are required

   OR   
   
Subscription choices:
Board Karma = 40  (3452 positive of 3834 votes is 40 %pts higher than a neutral 50%)
All Things (Safety Oriented) Motorcycle   
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

You can the entire collection of Safety Tip articles in a 33 Megabyte PDF Portfolio

 All Forums
 Motorcycle Safety
 General Discussion
 Bitcoins
Member Previous Topic Discussion Topic Next Topic  

James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 02/02/2014 :  1:17 PM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend                        Like
This site is funded from three sources:
  • Me, personally,
  • Clicks by you on our advertiser ads, and
  • Donations.

Advertizing ad revenue and donations, until now, have all been handled through PayPal. That has been, and remains, completely satisfactory.

Now, with the advent of Bitcoins, there is an exciting alternative that many of you might find even more convenient. Donations can be made through Coinbase - using either Bitcoins or any other currency.

The exciting thing about Bitcoins is that it is a form of international currency that is not controlled by any banks (including Central Banks like the Federal Reserve). In other words, it is NOT subject to manipulation by governments and neither is it subject to inflation. (It is, however, subject to market pressures like any other currency so that the value of 1 Bitcoin (BTC) can be $820 at this moment, and either more or less at any other moment.)

Anyway, there is now a Donate using Bitcoins button on our pages which allows a person to make a one-time $10 donation to this site.

Anybody who has a bitcoin wallet can make a donation of any amount they would like, of course, simply by sending that donation to my bitcoin address: 1ENThCm1GTosd4UB3XMVvZLh5pjE2qUkHm

If interested, we can discuss Bitcoins in a separate forum.

Arnold
Male Standard Member
176 Posts


Santa Monica, CA
USA

Kawasaki

KZ1000

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  2:39 AM
Glad to see the site back online! Man you were REALLY ahead of the curve with the whole bitcoin thing. I hope you were able to pick some up back when they were cheap. If you socked away enough, you'll probably be posting your next message from your own island somewhere!

On a serious note, it is amazing what has been happening with these digital non-fiat currencies. I feared it was perhaps a fad but with the weakening of the dollar, bitcoin is definitely here to stay. Congrats on having the foresight to identify an opportunity like this.
Go to Top of Page

James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  6:41 AM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
Agreed. Bitcoin market capitalization is now over $150,000,000,000.

Not just for us small guys, either. Coinbase has put together a bitcoin hedge fund where minimum investment is $10,000,000 with an entry fee of $100,000.

I just happen to have been in the right place at the right time.
Go to Top of Page

JanK
Male Junior Member
85 Posts


Ljubljana, Ljubljana
Slovenia

BMW

R1200R

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  5:48 PM
Ethereum donation address, please. The transfer fees currently in effect on the BTC network are horrendous - average is $10 vs $0.25 for ETH. https://bitinfocharts.com/compariso...-eth.html#3m
Go to Top of Page

James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  7:06 PM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
ETH address for donations = 0x6967e29d93806d7e133A682C4F47c0B22126c77E

For those who still don't know, when we began talking about bitcoins they were selling for about $100. Today, they're selling for about $7,750. But if you think that's unbelievable, we started talking about Ethereum when they were trading for $1 while today they trade for $346.
Go to Top of Page

Arnold
Male Standard Member
176 Posts


Santa Monica, CA
USA

Kawasaki

KZ1000

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  7:52 PM
You don't give yourself enough credit. Being "at the right place at the right time" is the essence of wise investing and much harder than it sounds. My question is do your still think bitcoin is a wise investment? With the stock market so artificially inflated, I can't see myself putting any money toward the S&P, although I have considered bitcoin.

My other question is how easy is it to cash in on your gains. It's one thing to see such fantastic returns, but if you were to decide to liquidate your holdings is it easy enough to do so? Is there a ridiculously wide bid:ask spread like you might find on some out of the money options? Just curious as this is all new to me...
Go to Top of Page

James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  8:38 PM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
The difference between bid and ask prices for bitcoin (and ethereum) is usually $0.01.

You connect your bank account with your exchange account (Coinbase, for example). That is the vehicle for depositing and withdrawing funds.

After depositing funds (USD), you can buy whatever cryptocurrency is supported by that exchange (bitcoin, ethereum, litecoin at Coinbase). When you wish to sell the bitcoins, you can sell them for either USD, ETH, or LTC and the transaction can occur within fractions of a second. When you want to withdraw USD (into your bank account), that transaction takes up to four business days.

Liquidity? That particular exchange trades about $1 BILLION per day in bitcoins.

Risk? You bet. The market is very volatile. The price of bitcoins often changes by a couple of hundred dollars per day (up OR DOWN).
Go to Top of Page

James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Peer Review: 1

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  8:48 PM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
Let me tell you a story. (Another example of being in the right place at the right time.)

Six months ago I was diagnosed with cancer. At my age (74) there are only two standard medical procedures to deal with it: radical surgery and Radiation. Typically, with a slowly growing cancer, the doctors recommend 'do nothing' but monitor it (quality of life issues). But there is an experimental procedure available that has far fewer side-effects than those other procedures. The problem is that no insurance company will pay for it and the procedure costs $30,000.

I elected to have that procedure performed. I sold $30,000 worth of Ethereum and withdrew the cash into my bank. Within a few days, I paid my doctor $30,000 for the procedure. Three weeks ago my lab tests verified that I am now cancer free.

Oh, within two months of my USD withdrawal I had earned more than the $30,000 I took out.

In a way, one could argue that Ethereum saved my life. (Exaggeration, of course.)
Go to Top of Page

James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  9:02 PM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
Arnold said:

"You don't give yourself enough credit. Being "at the right place at the right time" is the essence of wise investing and much harder than it sounds. My question is do your still think bitcoin is a wise investment? With the stock market so artificially inflated, I can't see myself putting any money toward the S&P, although I have considered bitcoin."

I cannot provide investment advice. Period.

Like you, I have ZERO dollars in the stock market at this time and haven't had any there for more than three years. As a result, I missed out on a lot of profit --- but I slept very well.
Go to Top of Page

Arnold
Male Standard Member
176 Posts


Santa Monica, CA
USA

Kawasaki

KZ1000

Posted - 11/18/2017 :  9:14 PM
wow! That's an amazing story and I'm very glad to hear you are cancer-free. Understood about the investment advice thing, but should you ever decide to start some kind of digital currency hedge-fund I will be the FIRST to sign up. Congrats again on your health (both physical and fiscal).
Go to Top of Page

bachman1961
Male Advanced Member
2268 Posts
[Mentor]


colorado springs, co
USA

Honda

CB750 NightHawk

Posted - 11/26/2017 :  1:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Arnold

wow! That's an amazing story and I'm very glad to hear you are cancer-free. Understood about the investment advice thing, but should you ever decide to start some kind of digital currency hedge-fund I will be the FIRST to sign up. Congrats again on your health (both physical and fiscal).




+ + +

To health and continued investment success !!
Go to Top of Page

Arnold
Male Standard Member
176 Posts


Santa Monica, CA
USA

Kawasaki

KZ1000

Posted - 12/03/2017 :  5:14 PM
Curious about something -what is bitcoin backed by? The US dollar used to be backed by gold up until sometime in the 1970s I believe. My understanding is during the years we were on the gold standard, you could exchange a dollar for an equivalent amount of gold which was stored at Fort Knox. Today the USD is backed by the "full faith and credit of the federal government". Certainly does not give me the same confidence as being backed by gold, but at least the US government hasn't defaulted on a loan since the beginning of this country, so I guess that's worth something.

Bitcoin on the other hand does not appear to be backed by anything. This confuses me. What gives it it's value? If the answer os nothing then why couldn't I start a coin called the Arnoldcoin? Would it not have the same intrinsic value as a bitcoin? Again, just trying to wrap my head around all this stuff....

Perhaps there is a website or book you could suggest where you leanred about bitcoin?

Go to Top of Page

James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 12/03/2017 :  5:54 PM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
Good questions. Thank you.

First, unlike the US Dollar, bitcoin is not controlled by a centralized entity (the US government). The US CONSTANTLY devalues the US dollar by printing more and more of them, and by running up debt that appears to be so large that it could never be paid back. Further, the US Dollars in your pocket are PROBABLY real, but may not be as counterfeiting does go on. Bitcoin is almost completely decentralized and cannot be counterfeited. And Bitcoin has demonstrated that it is a deflationary 'currency'.

Second, it is a mistake to think that bitcoins are merely a 'store of value' like fiat currency. Bitcoins have value far beyond store-of-value purposes - they can, for example, be transferred anywhere in the world in a matter of minutes for a nominal fee and they require ZERO trust and ZERO 'trusted middlemen' (such as wire transfer agents). Damn few businesses accept bitcoins in exchange for their products and services, though that is certainly changing (Overstocked.com is a notable exception.)

Third, US dollars are easily destroyed without the ability to recover them. You cannot destroy bitcoins. Light your Cuban cigar with a $100 bill and that cost you, irretrievably, $100. Store $10,000 in your house and it gets hit by a hurricane, odds are good you will have lost more than carpets and wallboard. Forget to bring any cash with you when you visit Canada, it's going to be difficult and time-consuming, and costly to get cash in your hands. All you need in the case of bitcoins is access to a computer or cell phone.

Fourth, bitcoins are the ultimate in portability and a damn good way of maintaining privacy. Did you know that there are machines that can tell exactly how much cash (paper) you have on you when you pass near them? Not possible with bitcoins. How much cash can you take with you when you cross the border? You don't cross borders with bitcoins - they exist (I mean YOUR bitcoins) exist all over the world.

I've received MEANINGFUL discounts when I purchased items with bitcoins. I bought a machine that was priced at $800 for $650 worth of bitcoins. I've been approached by obviously criminal elements who asked if they could buy $8,000 worth of bitcoins for $10,000 in cash. I refused, but it's clear that THEY valued bitcoins quite highly for whatever reason.

So, what is a US dollar worth? Whatever the public decides it's worth. If McDonald's decides to double their price for an egg McMuffin, a dollar is worth less there than elsewhere. What is a bitcoin worth? Whatever the public decides it's worth.

How many trillions of dollars of US currency exists? Nobody knows for sure. How many billions of dollars of bitcoins exist? About 150. It is not going to replace the US dollar.

Maybe this will help... bitcoins, at least to my mind, are a commodity rather than a currency
Go to Top of Page

onthebeach
Male Standard Member
117 Posts


Arch Cape, Oregon
USA

BMW

R 1200 RT

Posted - 12/03/2017 :  9:52 PM
A couple comments to follow on to this thread.

My understanding is that you can own bitcoins outright just like paper currency in your wallet or you can invest money in some sort of fund in which case some other entity holds your investment for you as would some institution hold your stock portfolio.

If you hold the bitcoins (or fractions of bitcoins) they are held in a "digital wallet". This is essentially some really long string of bits on magnetic media. If you keep this on your hard drive you run the risk of some hacker gaining access to your computer and stealing your bitcoins. You can also keep this on some magnetic media such as a USB memory card detached from the Internet to prevent theft.

Just as with the case of currency being lost to a fire if your only copy of your digital wallet is lost then your bitcoin funds will be lost. I have some argument with that statement that "you cannot destroy bitcoins" made in a previous post. If you have one copy of your "digital wallet" and it is erased then you really have lost that currency. My understanding is that some of those 21 million bitcoins that can exist have already been lost. I think that if you personally hold your bitcoins (rather that some investment house) then you can indeed lose that cash just as you can lose physical currency. Bitcoins do give you the ability to make multiple copies of a "digital wallet". Making multiple copies of the currency in your billfold is generally not well received.

Now here is the part of bitcoins that I do not understand:

Suppose you give me a $20 bill and I stick it in my desk. I ignore it for 20 years and then find it. I can still spend it. I have lost out to inflation but unless my government decides to print some replacement currency that $20 bill you gave me is still good.

My understanding is that bitcoin uses a blockchain and when I "spend" or divide a bitcoin into two parts a new bit pattern is created and published such that lots of computers know that the old bit pattern representing some bitcoin fraction has been converted to this new pattern. This published information shared to lots of computers is what prevents me from "spending" a bitcoin twice.

That is quite a simplification of a complex process but the important parts are:
1) A bitcoin or (fraction of a bitcoin) is a long string of 1's and zeros similar to lots of other things understood by computers.
2) A large collection of machines are made aware of any bitcoin transfer or division which is what prevents "spending" or dividing the same bitcoin multiple times.
3) When I "spend" some bitcoin currency some portion of this collection of computers has to verify that my bitcoin currency is valid and has not been previously spent.

I have seen figures of 60 to 100 billion credit card transactions made every year. I don't know how many will take place over the next 20 years but the number will be large. Now think about that $20 bill I found at the back of my desk drawer. Starbucks will still accept it in 20 years. If it was bitcoin currency just how much data would that collection of computers have to have on hand to verify that it had not been spent in the last 20 years? I do not see how bitcoin can possibly scale out as a form of digital currency to be used to perform the sort of transactions presently taking place. I wonder how easy it will be to spend 20 year old bitcoin currency.

I became aware of bitcoin back when the value was less than one dollar per bitcoin. Of course I am wishing that I had purchased $100 in bitcoins. But now with the value around $10,000 I can't see myself purchasing 100 of them. I hope that in 5 or 10 years I am not wishing that I had.
Go to Top of Page

James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 12/04/2017 :  12:25 AM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
Mostly good information, but largely incorrect.

Bitcoins are not things other than ledger entries. They do not exist in wallets. Period. Wallets contain only credentials that allow you to transfer bitcoin value. As they are not things, they cannot be destroyed, just as I said. You are correct, however, that they can be lost or stolen. But losing a wallet is meaningless and does not, in and of itself, result in the loss of bitcoins. There are ample security mechanisms in place to simply recover a lost wallet (just supply a key). Many wallets can require two or more different keys before transfers can take place. Exchanges, for example, always keep your bitcoin wallets in multi-key format. Personal wallets don't.

Bitcoins exist as ledger entries within a blockchain (a digital ledger). That blockchain (not bitcoins) is decentralized, meaning that copies of it exist in thousands of different places at the same time (for safety and functionality) and the ledger entries are immutable - meaning that they cannot be changed - ever. Period. If you transfer some number of bitcoins (even as small as 0.00000001 BTC, called a Satoshi), a new record (called a transaction) is placed into a block of transactions then that block is added to the end of the blockchain. The original ledger entry in the blockchain is ABSOLUTELY IMMUTABLE (does not, cannot, change - ever.) If even one digital bit in a blockchain is different than that bit in all other blockchains, that copy of the blockchain is no longer usable.


Bitcoins are fungible - a bitcoin is a bitcoin is a bitcoin. You cannot 'split' a bitcoin - it is not a thing. You can transfer any part of a bitcoin and the remainder exists along with the part that was transferred - i.e., two different ledger entries then will exist.

If you transfer (spend) a part or all of your ownership of bitcoins in 20 years, it is treated EXACTLY like a bitcoin that was created at the time. They are fungible.

Bitcoins will never exist in quantities greater than 21 million, as you said. That is part of why they are deflationary. They are currently being created 12.5 bitcoins every approximately ten minutes (by miners) and the amount that is created is cut in half about every four years. A year ago 25 BTC were created every about ten minutes. In three years there will only be 6.25 BTC created every about ten minutes. Etc.

I'd like to comment on something you said: "Of course I am wishing that I had purchased $100 in bitcoins."

What you meant to say was that you wished you had done so AND KEPT THEM.

This is not a trivial point I want to make. Bitcoins have already demonstrated very well a changing in consumption orientation and willingness to save. A society that must have it now uses credit if they can't afford whatever they want to have, and thereby that item costs more over time than if that society had waited until they could afford or had saved enough to outright buy it. The saving rate in the United States is abysmal as a result, and so is the amount of outstanding debt. I take it you recognize that I'm talking about both people and governments. Had you paid $100 for a bitcoin a few years ago, then spent that bitcoins on ANYTHING AT ALL (like a new tire for your motorcycle), today you could look at that prior spending as absolutely crazy. The value of bitcoins has increased more than 1,000% in just the last year. Do you really believe that that tire you bought back then was worth $11,000 in today's value? I rather like the idea that the existence of bitcoins is changing spendthrift attitudes and encouraging saving as well as discouraging the use of credit.

Thanks for your meaningful discussion comments. You are far more knowlegable than most people on the subject.
Go to Top of Page

JanK
Male Junior Member
85 Posts


Ljubljana, Ljubljana
Slovenia

BMW

R1200R

Posted - 12/04/2017 :  6:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by James R. Davis
...
Third, US dollars are easily destroyed without the ability to recover them. You cannot destroy bitcoins.
...



I'd argue that sending Bitcoin or Ether to an address whose private key is unknown, is the functional equivalent of burning coins - there is no way in hell anyone will get them back.

Or, to be exact, the chances are neglegible in the lifetime of the universe, just as it's highly unlikely that the CO2 and H2O and other molecules of a burnt piece of paper will reassemble themselves back into a $100 bill (but it's not impossible).

For example, Bitcoin address "1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE" almost certainly does not have a known private key. Neither does the official Ethereum burn address https://etherscan.io/address/0x0000...000000000000. The latter contains around $3.3M of irrecoverable funds. [EDIT:] Not to mention around $80M of other ERC20 tokens!

Additionally, there are addresses which contain dust - insignificant amounts of Bitcoin, so small, that the transaction fees to transfer BTC out of the address exceeds the value held at the address. So, currently, those could also be considered inaccessible.

When the Ethereum network transitions to Proof of Stake, is envisaged that there will be a built-in issuance precisely to couterbalance all the lost Ether.


Edited by - JanK on 12/04/2017 7:20 AM
Go to Top of Page

James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17328 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 12/04/2017 :  8:22 AM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
Yep, bitcoin value can be lost or stolen or transferred out of reach. They continue to exist, however - they are not destroyed.

As you said, you can transfer bitcoins to an invalid wallet address and thereby lose access to them (which is why you should ALWAYS Cut and Paste wallet addresses, by the way), but the ledger entries for those bitcoins continue to exist. Similarly, 'dust' balances are useless.

The point I was trying to make was that bitcoins are absolutely durable in that they are not paper or even gold and once created exist in perpetuity. They (bitcoins) do not exist in wallets. They exist as ledger entries in a distributed ledger called the blockchain that itself cannot be destroyed as that ledger is duplicated many times all over the world and even if every computer in the world were shut off, when just one of them was powered back on and running would make those bitcoins functional again. But while bitcoins cannot be destroyed, their owners can be (they can die, for example) and unless the owner provided his credentials to someone else, the bitcoins he/she owned would be lost.

All of this is merely a technical feature. And the fact that bitcoin value can become lost, that could also be seen as vaguely positive as it reduces the supply of bitcoins to the ecosystem which is deflationary (each remaining bitcoin becomes worth more).

I'm delighted to see the level of knowledge about cryptocurrencies shown here is so high. Sharing that knowledge as you guys are doing increases awareness and utility. Bravo!
Go to Top of Page

scottrnelson
Advanced Member
6915 Posts
[Mentor]


Meridian, ID
USA

Honda

XR650L, 1090 Adv R

Posted - 12/04/2017 :  8:52 AM
There are some very good articles about Bitcoin on https://arstechnica.com/

They're written from a technological point of view and seem unbiased for the most part. In particular, two recent ones were very good:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...worth-10000/
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...nners-guide/

You can search for "Bitcoin" on the site to find other articles, although these articles also contain links to previous articles as well.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Discussion Topic Next Topic  
Jump To:
All Things (Safety Oriented) Motorcycle © Master Strategy Group Go To Top Of Page
  This page was generated in 0.44 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05