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James R. Davis
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17375 Posts
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Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
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 Posted - 05/17/2011 : 2:14 PM
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In my book I wrote that to pass the ALT-MOST quick stop skill test without getting any points the student has to attain approximately a 0.6g average rate of deceleration. When I was teaching, the measurement was for a student traveling at 20 MPH to stop within 23 feet.
It has come to my attention that the MSF has reduced the speed at which the test is administered to from 16-19 MPH. That is meaningless without a score card. If a student is traveling at 19 MPH, how many feet must he stop in now in order to not get points? What about at 16 MPH?
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Axiom2000
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1761 Posts
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Georgetown, Delaware
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BMW
F 800 GT
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Posted - 05/17/2011 : 3:24 PM
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The Minimum and maximum speeds used for scoring the braking evaluation are between 12 and 18 MPH, to my knowledge those speeds have not changed, nor have I heard or read of any pending changes.
Actually speed is not recorded as a part of the evaluation, only the time it takes for the student to ride through a timing zone ending at the braking cue cones, recorded with a stop watch. That time is then converted to a standard stopping distance and points are accumulated for distances over the standard. If the rider is too slow, too fast not attaining the standard, or anticipates the stop by braking before the cue cones a second attempt is allowed. Here are the times and the corresponding standard stopping distances.
Stopping Standard
Time (sec) Distance (ft)
0.72 to 0.75 20
0.76 to 0.79 18
0.80 to 0.84 16
0.85 to 0.90 14
0.91 to 0.97 13
0.98 to 1.05 11
1.06 to 1.14 9
1.15 8
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James R. Davis
Administrator
17375 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
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Posted - 05/17/2011 : 3:58 PM
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Thank you.
What you sent me argues that the timing zone is 20' long.
The measured deceleration rates are 0.6g's in every case:
8' @ 12 MPH = 0.6g's
9' @ 13 MPH = 0.6g's
11' @ 14 MPH = 0.6g's
13' @ 15 MPH = 0.6g's
14' @ 16 MPH = 0.6g's
16' @ 17 MPH = 0.6g's
18' @ 18 MPH = 0.6g's
I wonder if they felt that slowing down the speeds would make it easier? It does just the opposite, as those of you who have read my book know. |
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Axiom2000
Moderator
1761 Posts
[Mentor]
Georgetown, Delaware
USA
BMW
F 800 GT
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Posted - 05/17/2011 : 4:41 PM
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quote:
What you sent me argues that the timing zone is 20' long.
I believe that is correct, I will check next time I am at the range however.
Unless there is some thinking that would change the .06g standard, I can't think of any reason why changing the speeds would be contemplated. If a higher g minimum was desired I would think the easy approach would be to just reduce the stopping distances for each of the times. Again, I have no information about any changes to speeds.
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James R. Davis
Administrator
17375 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
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Posted - 05/17/2011 : 5:23 PM
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Yep, curious, isn't it.
For a rider moving at 12 MPH to attain an average 0.6g deceleration requires that he attain a VERY MUCH higher deceleration rate than for the rider starting at 18 MPH. |
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dhalen32
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846 Posts
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Omaha, NE
USA
BMW
R1200RT
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Posted - 05/18/2011 : 6:17 AM
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Jim:
The timing zones are 20' now. This changed about 10 years ago. I think when you and I were teaching the RSS they were 40' long. I preferred the longer zone because I didn't feel as "pressured" to get it correct with my stopwatch. However, I don't believe that the speed quoted to the students in the directions has changed in the last twenty years I have been doing this. As you have said it is easier to meet the stopping standard from the higher end of the speed range. That is what I was taught when I learned how to become an Instructor and it is what I tell my students to this day.
Dave
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Question [To Moderators] |
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Quick stop measurements