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 Motorcycle Safety
 Rider Training Courses
 Riders Edge more dangerous than BRC?? Why?
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Bad_T
Male New Member
17 Posts


Dallas, TX
USA

Suzuki

GSXR 750

Posted - 11/14/2013 :  9:09 PM                       Like
"The state sponsored MSF classes have had about 1.4 million students since they began using the BRC curriculum. During that time there have been two deaths during those classes.

During that same time, and again using the BRC, Rider's Edge has had about 100,000 students. There have been five deaths (or near fatalities) during those classes.

In other words, there has been 1 death per 700,000 state sponsored BRC classes and 1 death (or near fatality) per 20,000 students in Rider's Edge classes. That, it seems to me, argues that the Rider's Edge BRC class is thirty-five times more dangerous than are state sponsored BRC classes.

James R. Davis"

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHY RIDERS EDGE IS SUBSTANTIALLY MORE DANGEROUS? I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHY.
Is the higher incidences due to a tougher riding course? Are they having students do stupid things like purposefully skidding the rear tire? Different training bikes? I see the figures represent a higher rate of accident, but I was curious of the cause.

bachman1961
Male Advanced Member
2265 Posts
[Mentor]


colorado springs, co
USA

Honda

CB750 NightHawk

Posted - 11/15/2013 :  3:51 AM
If you do some searching, you'll find some older threads, posts/responses that covered the subject with some details. Not sure if anything as per updated stats is available and if so shows improvement.
The first link offers 9 pages of reading.


http://msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic...ge,dangerous

http://msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic...=riders,edge

Edited by - bachman1961 on 11/15/2013 3:57 AM
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Axiom2000
Male Moderator
1761 Posts
[Mentor]


Georgetown, Delaware
USA

BMW

F 800 GT

Posted - 11/15/2013 :  3:57 AM
The only real difference in the two courses is the RE classes are taught exclusively on the Buell Blast. The Blast is a heavier more powerful machine than is used in a non RE BRC.
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Mikeydude
Male Advanced Member
741 Posts
[Mentor]


Ft. Worth, Texas
USA

Harley-Davidson

03 FXD Super Glide

Posted - 11/16/2013 :  2:48 PM
I haven't read the threads in a while, but wasn't there some question about the size of the area used in Riders Edge, as well as the location of off-track obstacles in relation to the course?
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James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17322 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 11/16/2013 :  3:20 PM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
As has already been said, the fundamental difference between the state-sponsored MSF BRC classes and the H-D sponsored Rider's Edge classes is the motorcycle used. The Rider's Edge classes use, exclusively, the Buell Blast, while the BRC classes, though they can use the Buell Blast, use smaller and lighter bikes.

The range layout and size used by both is the same. The curriculum used by both is the MSF BRC - though the Rider's Edge classes add a substantial amount of marketing material to that curriculum.

Though I worked a case which sought, incidentally, to determine if the Buell Blast was an appropriate motorcycle to use in a beginner training class, that issue was not resolved by the jury. (A Buell Blast was actually brought into the courtroom for the jury to see what it is.)

The jury found that the Rider's Edge class provider did not act in a negligent manner and found for the defense without having even heard my opinion on the issue of usage of the Buell Blast.

The MSF attorney was extremely effective and successfully prevented the jury from hearing my opinion on the matter (which was, and is, that the Buell Blast is inappropriate). Note that I am not here saying that the MSF attorney did anything wrong! He irritated me, of course, but also struck me as being VERY, VERY professional in behalf of his client.
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TonicBIA
Male Senior Member
382 Posts


Arlington, Va
USA

Triumph

Sprint ST

Posted - 11/16/2013 :  5:10 PM
That's impressive. It's hard to keep plaintiff witnesses off the stand in a civil suit.
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James R. Davis
Male Administrator
17322 Posts
[Mentor]


Houston, TX
USA

Honda

GoldWing 1500

Posted - 11/16/2013 :  5:34 PM Follow poster on Twitter  Join poster on Facebook as Friend  
I was not kept off the witness stand.

When the plaintiff's attorney attempted to get my opinions before the jury, however, his questions were met with a series of objections (such as, "I object - lack of foundation") and the plaintiff's attorney simply did not effectively deal with those objections or establish a rhythm that worked for him.

During cross, the defense's attorney was merciless in asking 'yes or no' questions and would not allow me to embellish my answers with rational.

I suspect that you thought that I was prevented from testifying. Not true, though the defense attorney tried very hard to do just that. That is, before the trial he filed a Daubert motion seeking to get my opinions excluded along with challenging my status as an expert witness in the court. It was a Federal court case and the judge denied that motion - ruled in my favor.

I have never been successfully challenged as an expert witness.
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CaptCrash
Male Advanced Member
744 Posts
[Mentor]


Nampa, ID
USA

Honda

Phantom

Posted - 11/16/2013 :  6:57 PM
I don't want to drag this out but I will offer a look at the RE demographics compared to BRC would be in order...do the RE clientele skew female or older?
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