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 Motorcycle Safety
 Rider Training Courses
 Counter steering in MSF beginner class.
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dhalen32
Male Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]


Omaha, NE
USA

BMW

R1200RT

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  5:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CaptCrash

Thank you. Excellent information.


CaptCrash:
You are welcome.
Dave
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TonicBIA
Male Senior Member
382 Posts


Arlington, Va
USA

Triumph

Sprint ST

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  6:15 AM


In va the qa teams do not include this individual. They also are supposed to qa coaches twice a year so they visit each site frequently. I followed up and he insists on the twice a year metric. Are there different regions in RE?
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dhalen32
Male Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]


Omaha, NE
USA

BMW

R1200RT

Posted - 04/27/2012 :  5:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TonicBIA



In va the qa teams do not include this individual. They also are supposed to qa coaches twice a year so they visit each site frequently. I followed up and he insists on the twice a year metric. Are there different regions in RE?


TonicBIA:
Yesterday I spoke to a RE NQI who was based in Virginia the past 5 years and he told me that they have not done two site visits annually in years but he did say that it used to be a goal to do so. So perhaps your source is operating under the old rules or as I said earlier, perhaps his assignments have been to dealers who are experiencing problems requiring follow-up visits.

There are different regions in the RE system so it is certainly possible that the regions may be operated in different ways. My friend has lived and worked in two of those regions where one annual visit was/is the norm and I am located in a third region where one visit is the procedure and has been for 10 years.
Dave
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TonicBIA
Male Senior Member
382 Posts


Arlington, Va
USA

Triumph

Sprint ST

Posted - 04/27/2012 :  6:15 AM
Dave,

Thanks for the info!
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Mithrandir
Starting Member
2 Posts


Brick, NJ
USA

(None)

Posted - 10/07/2012 :  6:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CaptCrash


To the OP's concerns--in some ways it's unfair to expect 100% recall from every student. Yup, not everything sticks so the question is how do you TEST if a person is counter steering whether they are conciously aware of it or not. A timed turn with a mandatory pathway would do that wouldn't it?



I just finished the Basic Rider Course today. (I think it is affiliated with MSF, but not sure) That was how they determined if one counter steered on one of the skills tests.
It was a three day session.

DAY1 was in the classroom.

DAY2 hands on training on motorcycles (mostly GN125), classroom and written test.

DAY3 more advanced skills training on motorcycles and a field exam (riding the motorcycle) through 4 test areas.

Our test consisted of
"the box" 2 U-turns in confined space; Swerve maneuver at speed; Stop
as quick as safely possible from 12-18mph; and taking curve in 2nd gear within a certain amount of time.

I passed over-all, but in the curve part of test I did not roll out of the curve. (ie went a bit too slow.) 5pt penalty. I think an 80 or better was needed to pass the driving part of course.

The counter steering took me a little practice to get right. Part of my problem is I do not think too much about it. I just do it (counter steering) and not realize I am doing it.

I would recommend the course for any one thinking of riding a motorcycle. I was unsure how I would do on a motorcycle, but I wanted to learn. It was plenty of fun. I learned much about motorcycles and riding that will make me better prepared when I go out on the road.

I still think I will need to practice on my own, but the course provided a good foundation to build my motorcycle skills.

The course also helped me decide if I want to ride in the future without a big expense.

Edited by - Mithrandir on 10/07/2012 7:01 PM
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dhalen32
Male Moderator
846 Posts
[Mentor]


Omaha, NE
USA

BMW

R1200RT

Posted - 10/08/2012 :  6:33 AM
Anthony:
I believe that NJ runs their motorcycle training program (not the MSF) and that the RiderCoaches work for the state rather than private companies. There may be a NJ RiderCoach on this board who can confirm or clarify. It sounds like the state uses the MSF curriculum and you did take the entry level course known as the Basic RiderCourse. The Knowledge test requires a minimum of 80% to pass but the Riding skills test you described has a pass criteria of 20 penalty points or less in order to pass. I am not sure if NJ has a more stringent criteria to pass as some states do. In your part of the country, Maryland comes to mind as a state that requires 15 points or less with a couple of other modifications to the MSF scoring criteria as well.

Were you required to demonstrate your ability to ride a bicycle before the RiderCoaches would allow you on one of the motorcycles? I seem to remember that this is a required activity by the state of NJ and always felt it was a great idea. Every once in awhile I swear I have student who does not know how to do this and wish I could do the same at the sites where I work in NE and IA.

It sounds like you had a good experience. Welcome to our safety oriented discussion forum.
Dave
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Mithrandir
Starting Member
2 Posts


Brick, NJ
USA

(None)

Posted - 10/08/2012 :  11:25 AM
Yes. Everyone had to ride a bicycle before we were permitted to ride the motorcycles.

Thanks for the welcome. It is good to follow the various discussions on this forum. I still remember (paraphrasing) to pull in both levers when needed from one of the threads on this sight.

quote:
Originally posted by dhalen32


Were you required to demonstrate your ability to ride a bicycle before the RiderCoaches would allow you on one of the motorcycles? I seem to remember that this is a required activity by the state of NJ and always felt it was a great idea. Every once in awhile I swear I have student who does not know how to do this and wish I could do the same at the sites where I work in NE and IA.

It sounds like you had a good experience. Welcome to our safety oriented discussion forum.
Dave


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Axiom2000
Male Moderator
1761 Posts
[Mentor]


Georgetown, Delaware
USA

BMW

F 800 GT

Posted - 10/08/2012 :  4:51 PM
Anthony,

quote:
I still think I will need to practice on my own, but the course provided a good foundation to build my motorcycle skills.

The course also helped me decide if I want to ride in the future without a big expense.


Thanks for your observations and comments. Your first sentence sums up nicely what I think the BRC is all about. Your second, describes a benefit to the BRC not often spoke of.

Your attitude about practicing what your learned in the BRC coupled with the knowledge found here in the Safety Tips and reading the many posts about motorcycle safety, is a great start for a new rider. I applaud your maturity and wish all new riders will follow the same path. I for one look forward to hearing of your progress.

Thanks
Jerry
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